Why Bi-wiring?

re: Why Bi-wiring?

DaveB — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:29:08 GMT

Hi Mike,

I totally agree with you when you point out that bi-wiring and bi-amping aren't the same. (See my post on bi-amping here http://bit.ly/bi-amping.) But I guess where you lose me is your description of how bi-wiring is achieved. Everything I have ever read or seen concerning bi-wiring, ranging from speaker and amplifier manufacturers owner's manuals to on-line how-to guides, recommends removing the connecting jumpers between the upper and lower speaker binding posts. But I could be wrong.

Of course, the bottom line of bi-wiring is simply that one uses a single stereo amp and two pair of speaker wires to drive a pair of stereo speakers. Bi-amping, on the other hand, uses two stereo amps (or four channels of a compatible surround sound receiver) to drive a pair of stereo speakers (two channels of power for the upper frequencies and two for the lower frequencies). In pro and tweaky high-end home applications there are electronic crossovers involved as well, but that's another story for another time.

I also agree with you, Mike, that if one were to bi-amp without removing the jumpers on the speakers, damage would occur. Although in this case, I fear that it would be the amplifiers that would suffer harm (maybe the speakers, too, I'm not sure). Also, I'm not certain how bi-wiring with jumpers removed would result in elimination of the low end. I presently bi-wire my speakers this way, and enjoy plenty of bass response.

Anyway, thanks for reading my post. If anyone else would like to weigh in on this fascinating and controversial topic, please feel free to speak up. I promise to keep an open mind.

Dave

re: Why Bi-wiring?

MIke — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:02:36 GMT

you guys seem to be using the term Bi-amp and Bi-wire interchangabley, they are not the same thing. The title says BI-wire, but what you describe is BI-amping. Bi-wiring is sending 2 sets of wires to your speakers with from the same output without removing the jumpers on the speakers. Bi-amping is sending one set of wires from one output to the high side connection on your speakers and sending a second set of wires from a different output (that is the same as the front speakeer output) to the low end connection on your speakers with the jumpers REMOVED. If you bi-amp without removing the jumpers you can destroy your speakers, and if you bi-wire and remove the jumper you are eliminating the low end of you speakers. Bi-amping has a benefit, bi-wiring has none.

re: Why Bi-wiring?

DaveB — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:19:17 GMT

Hi Ryan,

I can't guarantee you'll hear a difference, but I'm betting you will. On a related note, I believe the receiver you have allows for bi-amping. I might suggest doing that with your RF3ii towers, then bi-wire your RC3ii center channel. Good luck and good listening.

Dave

re: Why Bi-wiring?

Ryan C — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 11:23:54 GMT

I am wondering as well. I have Klipsch RF3ii and Klipsch RC3ii with a vsx23txh. Will I hear a difference if I bi-wire?

re: Why Bi-wiring?

DaveB — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 21:19:15 GMT

Scott,

I don't believe it would be possible to bi-amp your speakers with the '463. It offers 5 channels of power (instead of 7), with no provision for redirecting the power from the surround channels to the front speakers.

I see that it does have a Speaker A and Speaker B output, which would make it pretty easy to bi-wire your Klipschs. Just pop off the jumpers that connect the upper and lower binding posts, and run two pair of wires -- one each to the '463's Speaker A and Speaker B outputs.

This might not result in quite the same performance boost as true bi-amping, but it should give you enough improvement to justify the effort.

Dave

re: Why Bi-wiring?

Scott — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 05:48:55 GMT

I have a Yamaha RX-V463 Amp and Klipsch speakers. I want to bi-amp my front speakers is this possible? I know my amp has a Zone A and Zone B speaker connections.

re: Why Bi-wiring?

Ben — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:49:25 GMT

Dave, thanks for your invaluable help here; above and beyond the call with the research! I think I'm now ready to start running cable and enjoying the 706.

Sincerely,

Ben

re: Why Bi-wiring?

DaveB — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:30:40 GMT

Hi Ben,

you're right, these are a lot of questions. They're interrelated in some ways, but I'll try to answer them to the best of my ability. The Klipsch RP-3s pre-date Crutchfield's experience with this brand, so I'm going strictly by what the online owner's manual on Klipsch's website says.

It looks like the amplified speaker outputs from the Onkyo '706 would work just fine with the RP-3s, there is no need to use preamp connections in your situation. And it is just the subwoofer portion of these speakers that is self-powered, the higher frequency drivers still depend on the receiver's wattage.

Unfortunately, the Klipsch owner's manual doesn't provide an illustration of the available connections on the speaker, so I'm going strictly by the (somewhat cryptic) written description of inputs/outputs. From what I can gather, the LFE (Low Frequency Effects) input on one speaker is designed to accept the LFE signal from the receiver's subwoofer output, then feed that LFE signal to the other speaker (which could then, I suppose, in turn send it to a powered sub). That sounds a little convoluted for my taste.

Based on what I see from the manual, here's what I would do:

Remove the metal jumpers, and bi-amp the High and Low speaker inputs on the RP-3's with the '706's front and re-assigned back surround amplifier channels.

Run the subwoofer (LFE) output from the Onkyo straight to your powered sub. In my opinion, this would be the cleanest connection.

Given the number of potential connection options, you may want to contact Klipsch to see if there's a better way to do this. But from where I sit, the method above makes the most sense to me with your Onkyo receiver running the show.

Best of luck to you. Let me know how it turns out.

Dave

re: Why Bi-wiring?

Ben — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:33:32 GMT

Hi Dave thanks for the quick reply, that really helped me. I also read the bi-amping article you wrote which was very informative. I plan on doing that as well.

I do have another question or two if you don't mind. I also have the Klipsch RP-3's which are the powered tower speakers as I'm sure you know. These are new to me and I don't know if it's ok to hook the speaker up using the amplified outs from the receiver or if I need to use the pre outs since the speakers are powered already? Maybe it's just the sub portion that is powered. I am really green regarding these speakers. Any help with this would be great.

The other question regards hooking up a separate powered sub with the 706. Should I just run a separate cable to the sub or as I think the back of the RP-3's indicate, can I somehow pull the sub signal off the tower and send it to the separate sub? I'm going to be running wire through walls and ceilings soon so I'm trying to eliminate more runs if possible.

I know this is a lot of questions especially for this thread. Thanks for all the help.

Ben

re: Why Bi-wiring?

DaveB — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:21:39 GMT

Hi Ben,

connecting your speaker cables to the RC-3 should be pretty straightforward. You simply need to remove the metal jumpers that connect the high- and low-frequency input terminals on your Klipsch, then connect the posiitive and negative conductors of each of your two speaker wires to the positive and negative posts of the speaker. (Think of it as though your hooking up two speakers instead of one.)

Hooking up the receiver end is a little trickier, but that's only because you have to connect two sets of speaker wires on to the receiver's single center channel speaker output (which was really only designed for one set).

At the receiver end of my bi-wire setup, I chose to use one pair of wires terminated with banana plugs. I simply plugged those directly into the ends of the negative and positive speaker bindings posts (your Onkyo has the same type of hollow threaded posts that accept banana plugs as mine). The other set of wires I left unterminated. I just slid these in from the side, tightening down the speaker nuts afterwards to lock the wire into place.

I think that should work well for you. Let me know how it turns out, and if you have any other questions.

Dave

re: Why Bi-wiring?

Ben — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 02:27:03 GMT

Hi, I know this is an older thread but I'm trying to bi-wire my klipsch RC-3 center channel speaker with my new Onkyo 706 receiver and wondered what connections I need to make. Can you help me? The speaker does have two sets of terminal one above the other, I just don't know what to do at the receiver end. Thanks for any help.

Ben

re: Why Bi-wiring?

DaveB — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 17:26:58 GMT

That's cool, Rao! Did you try setting up your '1909 and Monitor 50s for bi-amping? As you may or may not realize, the Denon AVR-1909 receiver lets you reassign the back-surround amplifier channels to drive the front speakers -- effectively doubling the power going to them. The catch is that you can only do 5.1 surround instead of 7.1 (no big whoop if you have no back surround speakers anyway), and you can't power speakers in another zone with the receiver (although the '1909 still gives you preamp outputs for zone 2 if you really have your heart set on the multi-room audio thing).

Dave

re: Why Bi-wiring?

Rao — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:38:58 GMT

Thank you Dave for the TIP using A and B speaker terminals.

I bi-wired my system over the weekend and I am impressed.

I had the same experience as you described in your first post.

thank you again.

denon 1909

polk monitor 50

re: Why Bi-wiring?

BobJ — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:20:21 GMT

I have just had my new home wired for 7.1 home cinema plus multi-room audio (20 speakers)

I specified the best heavy duty cable at some expense!

Imagine my surprise therefore when I opened up one of the power amplifiesrs to find that the wires which feed the output terminals inside the amplifier are only very thin.

I have always understood that to achieve the results that heavy duty wiring promises the whole circuit had to be heavy duty.

Have I wasted my money?

re: Why Bi-wiring?

JohnP — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 01:53:21 GMT

I am running with an Onkyo TX-SR604, Polk Audio CS1 Center, and Pok Audio Monitor 70's for the Front...I decided to give bi-wiring a try on the 70's and I noticed improved accoustics (mainly, lows and mids) from the 70's! I'm glad I tried it, because I love it! This is one of those things you'll just have to try for yourself!