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Subwoofer / shaker 500 setup help

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Subwoofer / shaker 500 setup help

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Need some suggestions on setup; the car is a 06 mustang with shaker 500 system that has the 8” subs in the door. I changed the head unit replaced the F&R 5x7 speakers and added 2 10” subs with an amp in the trunk.

 

I have a Pioneer 6300UB that has 2 sets of pre outs (front and rear) rear can be set either SW or rear. Rear subs can be hi or low passed from amp or low passed from hu.

 

Right now I have the door subs connected to hu front preout and rear subs to the rear preout. I want to set the door subs as mid bass and not sure how. I was told the hu hPF controls the 4 speakers plus the front preout. The factory amps for the door subs are crossed at around 200 I believe.

 

How can I use the door subs as woofer / mid bass when the front preout is also controlled by the HPF for the 4 speakers ?

 

All Replies
  • If the factory amp to the door 8's is preset to lowpass them at 200 hz, then all you can do to bandpass them is to add F-Mod highpass filters on the amp RCA inputs like maybe 50 hz or higher or set the head highpass filter like that, but the lowpass will always be 200 hz. Only other option is to get a bandpass amp for the 8" woofers to replace the stock amp. It's not a bad idea, as long as the full range speakers are playing higher than the 8" woofers and the trunk subs are playing lower than the 8" woofers.

    GLH Geeked

  • I was thinking the same thing but if the hi pass on the hu is set to 125 let’s say for the 4 speakers.  It will banpass the 8” at 125 to 200 won’t it ? or will an Fmod over ride the setting. Or the other option I thought of was to set the hi pass on the hu to 80 for the 8” subs and then put bass blockers on the 4 full range speakers.(I think the full rage 5x7, will distort at hi volume @ 80)

  • whuggs1
    I was thinking the same thing but if the hi pass on the hu is set to 125 let’s say for the 4 speakers.  It will banpass the 8” at 125 to 200 won’t it ?

    this is correct, and might be exactly what you're looking for!  125-200Hz is a great filtering choice for mid-bass.  you don't actually want the two sets of speakers (in this case, mid-bass and sub-bass speakers) to play the same frequencies... that makes proper phasing extremely difficult and likely impossible if you want a nice, flat response.  if they play the same frequencies, you will undoubtedly experience wild peaks and dips in the bass response... which doesn't sound so good but might sound great on a select few songs... but overall, it will sound boomy on some songs, and other songs that do have strong mid-bass and sub-bass would become muddy and weak.  

    next step is LPF the 10's to 100Hz on down, get the phasing between the two speaker systems right as best you can, and enjoy accurate mid-bass and sub-bass at the same time!  it's a thing of wonder...

  • Ok put the HPF on the hu at 125 for the door subs and 5x7. Set the LPF on the hu to 100 on the rear subs, Sounds pretty good now. Should the crossover points overlap or gap? Or will in matter to much?

     

    Also the front subs are too much and can’t reduce them without reducing the 5x7 also. I also think Pioneer was wrong when they said the HPF controlled the front pre-out, the door subs play loud and low so think I might need a coil or cross over for them.

     

    Last question (for now) is it best to use hu LPF or one on the amp? Or does it matter, I have been setting both.

  • whuggs1
    Ok put the HPF on the hu at 125 for the door subs and 5x7. Set the LPF on the hu to 100 on the rear subs, Sounds pretty good now. Should the crossover points overlap or gap? Or will in matter to much?

    the filter's center frequencies absolutely should NOT overlap!  they will overlap a bit even at the frequencies i specified (filters are not a cut-off point, they are the -3dB starting point for a given slope of attenuation, basically meaning a 100Hz LPF will still allow frequencies of 125Hz to pass, although with a great reduction in power).  key point here is that a 100Hz HPF for example, will only reduce the sound of the speaker by 15 dB's (if it is a typical 12 dB/octave filter) by 15dB's  that's a lot of signal reduction, actually, but there will be overlap no matter what, even with a stronger 24dB/octave slope.  the trick is to provide some gap between the 2 different sets of speakers, (as both sets of speakers will have some response between the gap) and the filters will work out to approximately perfect with a 20-25Hz gap between them if they are in-phase. 

    whuggs1
    Also the front subs are too much and can’t reduce them without reducing the 5x7 also. I also think Pioneer was wrong when they said the HPF controlled the front pre-out, the door subs play loud and low so think I might need a coil or cross over for them.
     

    i generally prefer Pioneer HU's, and i haven't observed this situation myself.  i haven't tested every model, so all i can say is that this is possible.  but that assumes that your opinion of "loud and low" is similar to mine... which i doubt is the case.  i like deep bass, and Pioneer HU's that i've owned (6 total, to be exact, and 3 Alpines) were all some of the pricier 6 channel RCA models available at the time... not much experience on the simpler ones.  they all had commanding and relatively accurate filtering.  i honestly don't know the reason you're having trouble with the filtering, but it seems odd to have this complaint from a Pioneer HU... they are usually stellar in the "filtering options" category.  maybe you just need some help finding the right settings?  seems like a good HU to me, and one i may have picked myself (cuz i like Pioneer)!

  • I like Pioneer az well and used one in my 5.0 years ago with othere hi end componets and 2400 watts :)

    Ok so I unpluged the rear 10" subs from the amp and the door subs boom like crazy so think there is no HPF on them. My door subs get very lound and boomy even when I had the stock hu,must of got a good set.Could it be the adapter used to intigrade the stock amp wiring to rca's cuting out the HP filtering maybe ? I turn on the boom with rear disconected and raise and lower the HPF with no changes in dood subs but changes the 5x7

     



    [edited by: whuggs1 at 10:36 PM (GMT -5) on Mon, Apr 16 2012]
  • whuggs1
    is it best to use hu LPF or one on the amp?

    You will be better off using the LPF in the head. I realize the sub amp might not have an 'off' feature on the crossover and might be LPF only. If that is the case, just set the LPF on the amp at a higher number than the number set on the head. Normally, NO, do not use both filters or crossovers.

    GLH Geeked

  • Thanks GLH !

  • whuggs1
    I unpluged the rear 10" subs from the amp and the door subs boom like crazy

    hmm... reverse the phase of your subs!!!  there may be a switch on your amp or HU that allows you to do that (or processor, if you have one... you haven't mentioned one, tho) by basically pressing a button.  you can also physically reverse the POS and NEG speaker wires on your subs if you have no option to reverse the sub phase electronically.

    other than that, i don't see any obvious explanation here, but TigerHeli is better at aftermarket/factory integration if it turns out that phasing is not the issue.  he seems to be able to find that weird little wire that was supposed to go here and such things.  he's normally on-line during regular business hours.  try reversing the phase, tho. 



    [edited by: J Ro at 10:43 PM (GMT -5) on Mon, Apr 16 2012]
  • I can only reverse the phase on the rear subs not the door subs. I door subs are the dual voice coil with factory wireing so hate to cut into them Maybe I will just try some Fmobs and see what happens.

     

     

     



    [edited by: whuggs1 at 4:40 PM (GMT -5) on Tue, Apr 17 2012]
  • Ok just got off the phone with Pioneer and the HPF and LPF only affect the rear  pre-out, so the front pre-out has no crossover to adjust on the hu. I guess my door subs have been playing around 200 and down all this time and why it sounds better when there unpluged. Anyone know for sure were the door subs in the shaker 500 system cut off ?

  • whuggs1
    I can only reverse the phase on the rear subs not the door subs.

    that's actually what i meant.  just reverse the phase on the subs in your trunk and see if that is preferable. 

    F-Mods may be the easiest was to go.  don't know what the filtering for the stock system might be, so no help there.  there's also those cheap BassBlocker filter caps... they work pretty good.



    [edited by: J Ro at 4:51 PM (GMT -5) on Tue, Apr 17 2012]
  • J Ro
    the filter's center frequencies absolutely should NOT overlap!

    Minor nit-picking here, but this it typically but not always true.  In general, you don't want them to overlap as it would give a spike on a certain frequency, but there could be a case where the vehicle acoustics had a "dead spot" at some frequency or a dip, so you really did want a spike to compensate for it.

    2002 Ford Focus JVC KD-A815 Sony CDX-GT410u Sony XT-100HD HD Tuner Stock speakers, no amp, no subs

  • Just got some Ebay money so will get some Fmods,easier than caps. With the roll of and such should I look for 100 HP ?

  • TigerHeli
    Minor nit-picking here, but this it typically but not always true.  In general, you don't want them to overlap as it would give a spike on a certain frequency, but there could be a case where the vehicle acoustics had a "dead spot" at some frequency or a dip, so you really did want a spike to compensate for it.

    naww that's not nitpicking!  but sounds exactly like a point i made to you once, so what goes around comes around!

    whuggs1

    Just got some Ebay money so will get some Fmods,easier than caps. With the roll of and such should I look for 100 HP ?

    a 6dB/octave HPF @ 100Hz seems like a good choice.  don't wanna go too high.  you will likely need to adjust your trunk subs LPF after installing them  or even reverse the phase 180 degrees to get the phasing right (F-Mods, and actually any filter of any type will shift the phase... so if they are perfectly in-phase now, they won't be after you add the filter).