Could use some help, 1997 Toyota 4Runner

You'll get some clarity from changing the stock speakers, but you won't really get a lot more bass.

You would get more bass from changing the head unit, b/c the aftermarket head unit will have a more powerful amp.

You will need an amplifier with the B-24.

It's slightly more convenient not having to mount the subs to the box, but it's really not that big a deal.  You only do it initially.

Hope This Helps!!!

Anyone else have suggestions?

Thanks for the help!

I'm guessing the head unit is the stereo? It actually has an aftermarket stereo, and I even have one from my previous car that may work. How can I tell if the amp is powerful enough for the B-24? The specs for my stereo from my last car say this: 

"Built-in MOSFET amplifier (20 watts RMS CEA-2006/50 peak x 4 channels)"

Edit: Yeah just read up on amplifiers and realized the built in amp probably won't work. Guess I need help looking for a good amp, too!

Also, if you could recommend any different subs I'll definitely take a look. Like I said, I only chose the B-24 because I wanted to skip the mounting part (only because I have no experience with subs). If anyone could recommend a better sub for around the same price (~$200) let me know. I'm trying to get the best quality possible with my low budget.

Correct - head unit = deck = CD player = radio = stereo = the square little box in the dash with all the buttons you have to press!

Monstrafex

If anyone could recommend a better sub for around the same price (~$200) let me know. I'm trying to get the best quality possible with my low budget.

What is the total budget and what are the goals?

A good amp would be something like the MRP-M500 - but that is $200 by itself plus $50-60 for a wiring kit.  If that is too much and you just want some added bass, you might do better with a powered sub like the S/O B-8PT - but that won't really slam you in the chest with the bass, if that's what you want.

Thanks!

Thanks again for your assistance!

I guess if I were to put a limit on my spending, I wouldn't really want to spend more than $400 total, because this is a pretty old vehicle and I'll be getting a new one when I'm finished college. Plus, since it's my first time spending money on this type of equipment, I figure I should start small and spend more money when I have a little better idea what I'm doing (which you're definitely helping with)!

My goal is to get some slamming bass, (my friend recently got a sub and sitting in the back seat of his car with the seat-to-trunk cavity open is like sitting in a massage chair, I love it) but I'm not too sure how close I can get without dropping a lot of cash. My 4Runner has a pretty open interior (nothing blocking the trunk off from the rest of the truck). Will this allow bass to travel more easily throughout my truck, meaning I don't need as much power, or is that not how it works?

When it comes down to it, I want to be satisfied with my purchase, so if I can get the chest pounding bass for a little more $$$, I'll do it. I listen to a lot of electronic music that is focused on bass, so the more I can "feel" those frequencies, the more intense the music is!

If there's anything else I can tell you that will help out, please let me know. I'm glad I can talk to someone who knows what they're doing before I go and spend money.

TigerHeli

The B-24 would probably work with the Alpine or Sound Ordnance M-1500 amp, but it's a bandpass enclosure - might or might not be what you are looking for.

I read up on bandpass enclosures and didn't like what I heard. So I think I'd like to go with a sealed enclosure, since they aren't really tied to a specific frequency (I think). The Bass Bunker enclosure from that Bass Package definitely looks nice, and I wouldn't mind shelling out $80 for it. Out of curiosity, is 14x32" an average size for a sealed, 2-speaker enclosure? I'm wondering if I could sacrifice size without losing too much volume, but it's not a priority, just a thought.

TigerHeli

I'm not CRAZY about Kenwood, though.

However, the box is fine for $80.  You could then get these subs (pair) for $200:

Also, I'm gonna trust you with the Kicker subs. I've only had one Kenwood product (the head unit that was in my last car) and I didn't really like it. Plus, the Kickers just look badass.

TigerHeli

Crutchfield doesn't carry them - but Hifonics has a great rep in lower-priced amp.  You could get a BRZ1200.1D for around $150.  The good thing with that amp is it also makes 1200W RMS at 1-ohm - so you could use it with more powerful subs later.  Alternately, you could get a HFi1000d amp for around $120 to work with the 124 subs.

Something I don't really understand is the whole 2- & 4-ohm thing. I can definitely look it up more once I get home, but if you don't mind could you give me a quick rundown of the differences? I'm leaning towards the BRZ1200.1D right now, but all I've done is read the description.

And hell, I'd rather pay $500 and make my truck boom than be cheap and regret it! Thanks for the continued assistance.

We are getting a bit out of my element here, but anyway ...  (J Ro is more of the subwoofer expert and he is usually online in the evenings - you might PM him).

Monstrafex

I read up on bandpass enclosures and didn't like what I heard. So I think I'd like to go with a sealed enclosure, since they aren't really tied to a specific frequency (I think).

Unfortunately - you can't really go totally by what you read in these cases.

Sealed boxes are usually tighter and more accurate - but more importantly - you can't really mess them up too much.  Huge over-simplification, but most any sub in most any sealed box will sound pretty good.

Ported boxes get a bad rap for sounding a bit sloppy, but that is b/c the sub and the tuning frequency is critical.  The right sub will sound great in a ported box designed for it (and need less power and play louder), but you can't achieve that with a store-bought box - except the box designed for the subs.

I haven't had much experience with band-pass, but I suspect it is similar - if the bandpass tuning frequency matches the vehicle acoustics and the music you listen to, it will work well - otherwise it won't.

Also - Kicker's get a bad rap for being sloppy but loud compared to say JL or Alpine - but they tend to do better in sealed boxes even though Kicker tends to put them in ported boxes for their enclosed subs.

Monstrafex

Out of curiosity, is 14x32" an average size for a sealed, 2-speaker enclosure?

Seems about right at 1.2 cu. ft. per chamber.  You could definitely go with dual 10's and not loose much in volume (SPL).  You could probably also go with a more powerful single 10 or 12 and save a lot of volume (size) - but the budget might have problems with it (and I'm not sure how loud it would be comparatively.)

Monstrafex

Also, I'm gonna trust you with the Kicker subs. I've only had one Kenwood product (the head unit that was in my last car) and I didn't really like it. Plus, the Kickers just look badass

Yep - The Sound Ordnance is a good line and they probably perform well, but you're not going to impress anyone popping the hatch to show them off.  Not an issue with Kicker or JL or Alpine.  Personally, I'm more about the sound than what other people think, but I do understand the concept.

I think J Ro's comment on Kenwood subs was something to the effect of "Only really good for rock in sealed boxes - if that".  I like their amps alright - although they wouldn't be my first choice.  Head units tend to be love/hate with them.  I had one of their CD decks in the early 80's and didn't really like it either.

Monstrafex

Something I don't really understand is the whole 2- & 4-ohm thing. I can definitely look it up more once I get home, but if you don't mind could you give me a quick rundown of the differences?

It confuses a lot of people - see this and try different values- but, in a nutshell:

• You want to match the output of the amp (RMS Watts) to the RMS of the subs.
• The amp makes a certain amount of power based on the impedance that is connected to it.
• The subs would be selected based on that (some more below).

Monstrafex

I'm leaning towards the BRZ1200.1D right now, but all I've done is read the description.

For roughly $30 more, it is a MUCH more capable amp than the HFi1000d.

Here's some more on the 2-ohm/4-ohm stuff.

The Kicker CVR's are 800W combined.

The BRZ-1200.1d is too powerful for them at 1-ohm, but it is about 900W at 2-ohms, which is perfect.  Since the CVR's are DVC, you would want the 2-ohm versions and wire the voice coils in series and then the subs in parallel for 2-ohms at the amp.

The HFi1000d is rated 1000W at 1-ohm, but is not CEA-compliant.  It probably is about 800W RMS at 1-ohm, which is also fine for CVR's.  In this case you would want the DVC-4-ohm subs and wire the voice coils in parallel and the subs in parallel for 1-ohm at the amp.

Another way to look at it, though - the HFi1000d is pretty much maxed out with two CVR's.  OTOH, the BRZ1200.1d is only using 800W and could do 900W - and if you changed subs could power something like two Type R DVC-4-ohms.

Hope This Helps!!!

Anyone else have suggestions?

Awesome! Thanks for all your help. I think I'll end up going with the BRZ-1200.1D and the 2-ohm Kickers.

I'm hoping it's pretty easy to hook up, I've never really wired anything like this before.

The electrical stuff is pretty simple - running the RCA's and power wires behind trim panels can be a pain.

We will be here to help - along with Crutchfield's tech support if you buy from them.

Anyone else have suggestions?

Overcome by events now, but if anyone else is reading - I just realized the B-24 subwoofer is rated 500W RMS at 4-ohms.  The MRP-M500 would be a bit small for it and a bridged 2-channel amp would be a better choice.

I've started talking to J Ro about the whole situation like you recommended. We haven't got into specifics yet, but I'm still leaning towards the Kickers/Bass Bunker/Hifonics amp right now. I want the thundering bass, but I don't want to sacrifice sound quality in order to get it, and whenever I read something about sealed boxes and the Kicker 10CVR122s, I hear good things about accuracy and quality. (Me likey!)

I'll definitely be back after I have the stuff ordered, whether to request help setting it up or to just show you guys the finished product!

I was curious about 2-channel amps--the BRD1200.1D is 2 channel correct? What does this mean? Also, what is a "bridged" amp? The more I know, the less I can mess up! I don't want to end up damaging my subs by wiring them wrong or playing them too loud, something of that nature.

And, I know this will be hard for you to judge since you have no way of inspecting my vehicle, but is there any advice you can give me to reduce/eliminate rattling? I'm talking about the loose pieces (if there are any, I'm not sure but it is 15 years old so there's bound to be) of plastic and whatnot that may be rattled off by the vibrations. I'm hoping I don't have to deal with this, because my friend had a rattling problem with his old speaker system in his truck, and it was very irritating to have loud music playing with a constant rattling sound. I'm not trying to blow my car to pieces with sub bass, either.

Again, I know it's hard to predict if I'm going to be dealing with any rattling/etc., but any insight that can help me prepare is greatly appreciated. 

Thanks!

Monstrafex

I've started talking to J Ro about the whole situation like you recommended.

Good - go with whatever he suggests!!!

Monstrafex

I was curious about 2-channel amps--the BRD1200.1D is 2 channel correct? What does this mean? Also, what is a "bridged" amp?

Negative - the BRD1200.1D is most definitely a mono amp.  Some people get confused because it has two sets of output terminals, but these are wired together in parallel and are only there so that it is easier to connect a pair of subs in parallel at the amp - for convenience.  (It also has a pair (right and left) of RCA inputs simply b/c MOST head units use this configuration.)

Oversimplification but a mono amp has one "Channel" - typically used for a subwoofer.  A 2-channel amp will have left and right channels.  A 4-channel amp will have front left, front right, rear left and rear right channels.

Those are typical - of course you can do things like running one mono amp for the left front speaker and another mono amp for the right front speaker or bridge or use only one channel of a 2-channel amp to power a sub.

MOST multi-channel amps can be "bridged" to produce twice as much power at double the impedance.  For example, an amp that is 250W RMS x 2 @ 2-ohms could likely be wired as 500W RMS x 1 @ 4-ohms.  Again, MOST but not ALL multi-channel amps support this, so if you were using one (not recommended) you would want to be sure it supported it (there is usually a diagram on the output terminals if it does.)

Minor point, but note that running two subs off a mono amp is NOT bridging - that is just parallel or series wiring (or for DVC subs, series-parallel or parallel-parallel, etc.) and also note that running two amps to a single sub is not bridging either - that is referred to as "Strapping" and only a select number of amplifiers support that.

Monstrafex

but is there any advice you can give me to reduce/eliminate rattling?

If you figure one out - let me know!!!

Toyota's usually aren't terribly bad about it, but it's been a nagging problem with my Focus and I don't even run subs or amped mains.

There are things you can do such as removing panels and putting foam tape or sound damper or wrapping electrical tape around joints - but often you find out that what was silent in the summer will still rattle in the winter when the panels contract and have more gap between them - or that the rattle really originated from a panel beneath the one you damped and you have to do it all over again.

(Smacking panels is pretty efffective in the Focus, but that's not a permanent or recommended solution.)

Hope This Helps!!!

Anyone else have suggestions?

Cool, gotcha. I'm just gonna anticipate that there will be a lot of rattling so I don't go and get my hopes crushed, haha.

Another thing I was thinking: is it possible to have the subs separate from my head unit? As in, can I turn off the sub without powering off my head unit? Also, I'm guessing there will be a level knob for the sub, or something of the sort (on the amp) so I can adjust the bass if it's overpowering my higher frequencies?

And one last thing! How can I be sure these subs along with the amp won't kill my car battery? It is a pretty old car.

TigerHeli

(Smacking panels is pretty efffective in the Focus, but that's not a permanent or recommended solution.)

Monstrafex

Cool, gotcha. I'm just gonna anticipate that there will be a lot of rattling so I don't go and get my hopes crushed, haha.

Another thing I was thinking: is it possible to have the subs separate from my head unit? As in, can I turn off the sub without powering off my head unit? Also, I'm guessing there will be a level knob for the sub, or something of the sort (on the amp) so I can adjust the bass if it's overpowering my higher frequencies?

And one last thing! How can I be sure these subs along with the amp won't kill my car battery? It is a pretty old car.

it's not that old of a car, and it's a truck.  trucks usually have pretty stout alternators as factory equipment.  you can most likely add a 500 watt RMS system without any issue, and a 1000 watts system may be perfectly fine with just a couple wiring upgrades.  it's weird to bounce around from PM's to your thread, so can we just take it from here? 

due to the type of music you listen to (really liked the sample you sent me from Kill The Noise.  the faux church organ opening really drew me in), you will most likely be satisfied with larger subs in a sealed box, or smaller subs in a ported box.  that's a tough decision to make, bcuz electronic music has very high (say 150Hz) bass as frequently as it has very deep bass (maybe 30Hz).  a sealed box is a bit more versatile in covering this wide range of bass notes with accuracy.  a ported box can likely handle the deeper frequencies better, but that's only part of the bass frequency spectrum.  i rarely say this, but the Kickers you mentioned in a large sealed box should handle all your bass needs.  Kicker's subs sound good to me, just it's hard to make them sound equally good in a ported box.  they weren't meant for that application (the new CVX's are an exception). 

i'd think a dual sub-system (a smaller sealed sub for upper bass and a bigger ported sub for deep bass) would be best for you, but that gets complicated pretty fast. a basic, big sealed system is a good place to start.