I've already bought the radio, and the speakers are on the way, however, The radio has 2 sets of preamps. I was considering (heavily) running a 40 (or 50)x4 amplifier to all the speakers, which takes up BOTH of the preamps, yes?
By doing that, I would be SOL for installing a amp and a sub, wouldn't I? I know there are "Y" splitters, but wouldn't it be too much for the radio running 3 pair of RCA's?
The Pioneer radio puts out 14 RMS, would adding am amp that drives the speakers properly make a lot of difference, or would it be best to just not worry about, and save the preamps for the sub amp? If I could work both, I'd do it.
It's a standard cab truck, but it is the highest trim level, fully loaded, which means.....it has a storage compartment / pockets, etc and a case of the jack and so on behind the seat, meaning, a sub box won't "fit" there, because it has nowhere to "sit".
Only option I can think of (since I don't want to remove the stuff back there, looks nice) is to mount a sub under the seat, perhaps a 10" under each side, or a 12" under 1 side?
I need help figuring out what sub would be ideal, I want bass, since listening to speakers that can't produce crap below 250 Hz isn't fun, and hearing 4x6's trying to sound like 12"s must be the saddest thing in the world to ever hear (dun dun dun FART, dun dun dun FART)
I don't want "blow me out of the vehicle bass" or "overpowers EVERYTHING" bass, but I want something that has a punch, and sounds like a sub, not a mid-range, but that doesn't overpower everything else. I have 2 12"s in the trunk of my Town Car, and just picturing all THAT directly underneath me, is....scary.
I saw under "subwoofers" the first sub (also the cheapest, not intentionally) they have a MTX Tunderoad? 4500 series, 10", that has gotten pretty much all 5* reviews. Would something like that be ideal?
1994 Lincoln Town Car, Signature Series, Pioneer DEH-1900MP, JL Audio TR570-CXi's, JL Audio C2-690tx's, Kenwood KAC-8204D, Kenwood KFC -W3011's.
1993 GMC Sierra K1500 SLE, Pioneer DEH-3100UB, Boston Acoustics all around.
On your radio - there is no way I would amp 3.5-inch speakers - but that's just me - I've never had much luck with them - but I haven't had a car with 3.5's since the 1980's (but it didn't have them for long with an 18W amp).
What I would do is amp the 4x6's and amp the sub - either with a 4-channel or separate 2-channel and mono amps.
For your RCA's, you want the sub using the rear subwoofer RCA's in subwoofer mode.
For the mains - I will assume the 4x6's are in the rear. You would get the best sound quality connecting the 3.5's to the rear HU speaker outputs, the front RCA's to the 4x6 amp, and just knowing that front and rear were reversed on the fader control. Otherwise, you can run the rear speaker level wires to speaker-level amp inputs or a LOC.
If you wanted to amp all 4 speakers are run the sub - I would use the speaker level inputs and/or LOC so you still have the fader, but if you don't care about the fader, Y-adapters on the front outputs would work.
There are other options such as RCA outputs on the amps, but if you change the settings on the HU, you will be affecting that amp also, so that probably isn't a good idea!
2002 Ford Focus Sony CDX-GT410u Sony XT-100HD HD Tuner Stock speakers, no amp, no subs
Sounds good. I ordered two of them, guess I'll order the amp when either this paycheck comes in, or the next. These MTX's have a rating from 50-250? RMS, so 150 should be adequate for now.
Wow - lot's of activity since I was here last.
SignatureSeriesOwner:I did run one in the Town Car, however, I used RCA's,
As you should here, all the amps you are looking at support them.
One thing that has NOT been mentioned - Sever the wire connection between the Head Unit and the speakers. You do not want both the HU OUTPUTS and the amp speaker outputs BOTH connected to the speaker, you risk burning up the head unit amp or the new amp.
I don't know what speaker level inputs/outputs are, or where they are located. I'm not understanding how the signal goes from the radio to the amplifier, if the wiring for the speakers goes directly from the amp to the wires, which rules out any audio signal for the amp to detect there, and there are no RCA's running from the amplifier to the radio, so it isn't getting an audio feed. I never saw any wires labeled "Speaker Level Outputs" on any of the wires I was soldering, or on the back of the radio itself.
In case you didn't realize it yet, the speaker level OUTPUTS on the HU are just the eight wires - white, white/black, gray, gray/black, green, green/black, purple, purple/black - that go to the speaker. They aren't called that, but that's what they do. They would go to the speaker level inputs on the amp if you used them, but you don't need to if you use the RCA's (if the fader being reversed won't drive you nuts - LOL).
You have audio outputs and inputs on the amp. The outputs go to the speakers. The inputs come from either the HU speaker wires or the RCA's (you have to run one or the other or you get no sound - you do NOT want to run both (on the same amp channels, at least).
I was looking at that MTX, but I don't understand how the speaker level inputs work (as written above) so that shyed me away from it. Hmm. The Kenwood KAC 6404 is looking like a strong contender here. 40x4, 130 RMS x2, RCA inputs....
Hmm. The Kenwood KAC 6404 is looking like a strong contender here. 40x4, 130 RMS x2, RCA inputs....
Errrm - SSO, I don't know of any amps CF sells that DON'T have RCA inputs. There are a few that ONLY have RCA's. There are probably some flea-market brands that don't accept RCA's, but most of those will have them also.
Kenwood is decent, but personally I like the other amps better, the JBL is a re-furb and the RF and Alpine are a bit more money, though.
Sine I will only be running 2 speakers to it, for the time being, there will not be any subs hooked up for a month, maybe more. Is it ok to leave channels 3 and 4 with no load on them, period? I won't burn anything up by just using 2 channels, with nothing hooked up to the other two?
No - no problem there...
And for the radio itself, if the rear speakers are not receiving a signal from the wiring harness, but from the RCA's, I won't blow a channel will I? The signal would still be sent to the rears, via the factory wiring, however, the speakers won't be getting any of the load, because the amp is powering them. Will this harm the radio, if the fade/balance is 0/0, but only the front speakers are being powered from it, via the radio amp?
Wait a minute - you still aren't getting this - the rears aren't getting power from the factory wiring - except if you splice the factory wiring to run to the amp. Let me break down the radio wiring for you. There are three ways you can do it -
Disconnect all the speaker leads (8 above) from the HU and the CF harness. Connect the Pioneer REAR speaker wires to the CF front Harness wires to power your dash speakers - i.e. the purple Pioneer wires go to the Gray CF wires, the Green Pioneer wires go to the white CF wires. Tape or cap off the Pioneer front speaker wires - IMPORTANT - you can short out the HU otherwise. Connect the Pioneer Front RCA's to the CH1 and CH2 inputs on the main amp. Connect the CH1 and CH2 outputs on the main amp to the CF harness rear wires or your factory wiring.
Do not mess with the front speakers connections from the HU. Disconnect the rear wires from the Pioneer and CF harness. Extend the rear wires from the Pioneer HU to the speaker-level inputs on the amp (most amps have a separate plug-in harness for this - not shown in the pics, you might look in the owners manual. Extend the speaker outputs from the amp to the rear wires of the CF harness or your factory wiring.
Do not mess with the front speakers connections from the HU. Disconnect the rear wires from the Pioneer and CF harness. Run the rear wires from the Pioneer harness to the rear inputs on the LOC - the front side of the LOC will not be used. Run RCA's from the rear outputs of the LOC to the RCA inputs on the amp.. Extend the speaker outputs from the amp to the rear wires of the CF harness or your factory wiring.
One of the MTX's would be good with the 4-channel amp. It is a 4-ohm sub so two of them won't work. To run two subs off a bridged amp, you need DVC-4-ohm or SVC-8-ohm or SVC-2-ohm, and the amp likely wouldn't have enough power for them anyway.
Hope This Helps!!!
I was thinking of JUST disconnecting the factory harnesses from the speakers, and run wires from the new speakers to the amp, letting the original speaker connectors lay in the frame of the cab, like they do stock. that would work just as well, right?
I've read all you said, and this really looks like a huge PITA, lol
This was what I was going to do. Tell me if this is safe.
Get the amp (OK, I'll probably try the JBL, even though it's 60 RMS, isnt that too much to the speakers?) I'll run RCA's from the radio to the amp, not touching the wire harnesses period.
THEN, disconnect the harnesses that connect to the speakers, lay them in the frame of the cab, just they are stock, and just run new wires from CH1 and CH2 to the new speakers....sounds like it'll work for me, but does it?
That way, the radio is not powering the rear speakers, because the harnesses are unplugged, but the amp is, via the RCA's.
My concern was, if the Fade/Balance is being set to 0/0, equal current is sent to all 4 harnesses still, yes? Well, if only 2 speakers are connected, and all 4 harnesses are getting current, wouldn't that throw off the radio, and blow the rear channel, or something?
You need to pick one of the methods I posted above.
What you suggested will work, but your HU has front pre-outs and you are using the front HU channels for the dash speakers - so the fader is just a volume control and you would want it all the way forward (and can't set the relative F/R volume except with the gain control on the main amp).
If you were amping the front speakers and running the rears off the HU it would work fine, but you aren't.
As long as you cap or tape off the disconnected HU wires, you won't hurt the HU.
The JBL is a bit powerful for the 4x6's, but it's a great deal.
It's really not that bad if you re-read what I posted earlier (with all the bullets).
If you reply back with what's confusing you, I'll try to sort it out for you.
(First method you mentioned, best SQ, backwards fader)
Connect the Pioneer Front RCA's to the CH1 and CH2 inputs on the main amp.
Connect the CH1 and CH2 outputs on the main amp to the CF harness rear wires or your factory wiring.
I'm safely assuming that the first one means running a physical RCA cable from one of the preamps on the back of the radio (does it matter which one, or are they labeled?), to the amp CH 1 and CH 2, yes?
Part 2...
Are you saying that's where the wires from the amp to the speaker will be run? CH 1 (+) and (-) to the speaker (+) and (-), ditto for CH 2?
If so, that's probably the method I'll go, however, unsoldering wires isn't exactly the funnest thing in the world :-/
SignatureSeriesOwner:(First method you mentioned, best SQ, backwards fader) Connect the Pioneer Front RCA's to the CH1 and CH2 inputs on the main amp. Connect the CH1 and CH2 outputs on the main amp to the CF harness rear wires or your factory wiring. I'm safely assuming that the first one means running a physical RCA cable from one of the preamps on the back of the radio (does it matter which one, or are they labeled?), to the amp CH 1 and CH 2, yes?
Correct - you will actually want to use the front pre-outs for the rear speakers since you want to use the rear/sub preouts for your sub. (That is why you have to connect the front speakers to the rear speaker wires.
They should be labelled, but if the owner's manual is correct the the front outputs are closest to the center of the radio and the rear/sub are closest the outside (Left side looking from the rear).
Part 2... Are you saying that's where the wires from the amp to the speaker will be run? CH 1 (+) and (-) to the speaker (+) and (-), ditto for CH 2?
Correct again - if you plugged the Left (white) RCA into the CH1 jack, then you would run the CH1 + and - wires to the LR speaker + and -.
No need to unsolder - just snip the wire either side of the solder connection and strip some new insulation off - of course you then have to re-solder or crimp, so not much saved.
You probably don't want to hear this now, but if it were my truck, I would definitely go with one of the other two options (speaker level or LOC) for two reasons (even though it is slightly lower SQ):
BTW - I would have a similar dilemna with my Sony if I added an amp - the unit has one set of REAR/SUB pre-outs, but the most likely upgrade for me would be amping the front speakers.
Man, you're killing me ;)
Only main difference, is no RCA's, but I just run speaker wires from the Pioneer harness, to the inputs on the amp, then from the outputs, to the speakers themselves, right?
(In a nutshell)
SignatureSeriesOwner: Man, you're killing me ;) Only main difference, is no RCA's, but I just run speaker wires from the Pioneer harness, to the inputs on the amp, then from the outputs, to the speakers themselves, right? (In a nutshell)
Yep, that's pretty much it.
1992 Chevrolet pickup; Jensen VM9412 HU; Alpine 4x6 2-way dash speakers x 2; Pyle Blue Label 4x6 3-way rear speakers x 2; Pyle Blue Label 12" subs x 2; Crunch GVP700.2 "Ground Pounder" subwoofer amplifier; Custom Subwoofer box
Yep, you got it!!!
Sorry to keep changing stuff up on you - but it's the difference between everyone that rides in the truck thinking you didn't know what you were doing and accidentally wired it up wrong for a marginal improvement in SQ from using the RCA's.
Gotcha, cool! Then I won't need any RCA's period, right?
Correct, no RCA's required (except for the subwoofer amp, of course).