Hi All,
Please help me setup a good car audio system.
I own a Pioneer DEH-P6850MP CD player. The specs. are as below:
Audio Features MOSFET 50 Watts x 4 high power EEQ (Easy Equalizer) 7-Band Graphic EQ within EQ 5 Preset + 2 Custom EQ Mode Bass and Treble Tone Controls Selectable 3-Mode Loudness Control LPF Subwoofer Crossover (50, 80, 125Hz @ -12dB/oct.) Normal/Reverse Subwoofer Phase Selection Direct Sub Drive (from headunit power) HPF (High Pass Filter 50, 80, 125Hz @ -12dB/oct.) Electronic Volume / Balance / Fader controls 4 Volts RCA Preout Level 3 prs RCA Preout (Front + Rear + Sub/Non-Fading) SLA (Source Level Adjuster)
And I do have a old SONY EXPLOD XM-502Z amp. The specs. are as below:
2-ChannelMOSFET Power Supply50W x 2 continuous power80Hz low-pass filter100 Watts RMS @ 4 OhmsActive Protection CircuitRCA and Speaker Level InputsGold Plated Terminals
Making use of the above mentioned player + amp, I want to build a system. I want to add the following:
1) Rockford Fosgate PL2-110 Subwoofer
2) Rockford Fosgate Punch P300-1 mono amp. to power the PL2-110
3) Front door component speakers (5 1/4"): component S50
4) Rear tray (6'X9'): Polk/MOMO MMC690
Now my questions are:
a) Whether this setup works fine?
b) Is it okay if I don't use an amp. to power front and rear speakers?
c) Can i use my old XM-502Z amp. instead of buying a new Punch P300-1 mono amp. to power the PL2-110 ? Are there any compromises in using a 2-channel stereo amp. (sony XM-502Z) in bridged mode to provide 100 RMS to power the PL2-110?.
and finally,
d) Do you suggest any better setup using my existing Pioneer DEH-P6850MP player and SONY XM-502Z amp.?
Thanks in advance,
aaRDee
Drats - I'm pretty sure I answered this Saturday, but I must have not clicked on "Post", going from memory and retyping now:
First off, your Pioneer is about 22W RMS non-CEA2006 compliant, probably about 17W RMS real-world. The 50W is a peak number.
Second, it is recommended to run the same brand of speakers front and rear, although this is a suggestion, not a rule if you like those speakers.
So what you have to work with:
Pioneer 17W RMS HU
Sony 50Wx2 RMS amp
RF 200Wx1@4-ohms sub
RF 150Wx1@4-ohms amp (likely puts out a bit more than that)
BA 5.25 components - Rated 55W RMS
Polk Rear components - Rated 10-100W RMS
Answers/Suggestions:
Yes - with some qualifications:
Speakers should be matched brand.
Recommend an amp for the component speakers.
Punch 300-1 amp is not quite powerful enough for the sub and is expensive (RF makes good amps, though).
Sony amp is mid-power and not really enough for the sub.
It's okay, but not recommended. The speakers (especially the Polks) will like more power than a HU internal amp. You could either add additional amps or go with less power-hungry speakers. Reply back with year and model of car if you want to go the second route.
c) Can i use my old XM-502Z amp. instead of buying a new Punch P300-1 mono amp. to power the PL2-110 ?
Not recommended, CF recommends powering subs at 70% of their RMS. The 300-1 is just about there, the Sony would be 50% of RMS - it will work if you don't go wild on the gains, but it won't be nearly as loud as it could be.
Are there any compromises in using a 2-channel stereo amp. (sony XM-502Z) in bridged mode to provide 100 RMS to power the PL2-110?.
Your biggest compromise is that the amp is too small for the sub. A stereo amp will run hotter and draw more power than a Class D subwoofer amp, but if matched in power that's usually not a problem and can be a significant cost savings.
If you are set on those speakers and don't want to spend any additional money, I would at least use the Sony amp on the Polk components (it is actually better matched for the BA's, but if you only have the one amp the Polks need an amp more than the BA's - OTOH, sound staging would be better with the Sony on the BA's).
If you want to save some money on the sub amp, these would work well.
If you stay with those components, I would recommend amping all of them. You could use the Sony amp on the BA's and add either another 50W-70Wx2 amp for the Polks - which would give you balanced sound but not play to their full potential, or an 80W-100Wx2 amp which would give you the best sound, but the Polks would tend to overpower the BA's, so you would end up fading the sound to the front, which defeats the purpose. Better matched (power-handling) front and rear speakers would help.
Another thing to consider would be getting a 4-channel amp (again running the BA's off the Sony), running the Polks off the front amp channels and running the sub off the bridged rear channels.
Sorry to throw so many options out there, but there are a lot of ways you can go with this!!!
Hope This Helps!!!!
2002 Ford Focus Sony CDX-GT410u Sony XT-100HD HD Tuner Stock speakers, no amp, no subs
Thank you TigerHeli. I expected this nice reply from you. Great analysis, though I am more confused now.
How about going for a matched component in the rear tray as well?
In that case, I need to buy a 4-ch amp. Right?
And, also on the subwoofer part, I am more obsessed with RF, Hence please suggest me a Enclosed Sub. that can be efficiently powered with my Sony amp.
My Car is: 2007 , Hyundai Accent , Sedan.
Okay - I did this thread from memory, so I didn't quite pick up that you were using Polk 6x9's rather than components.
What kind of car are we dealing with - and why do you seem determined to use the Sony Amp for the subs - it's a good 2-channel main amp?
aaRDee:How about going for a matched component in the rear tray as well?
Your biggest problem is the rears are 100W and the fronts are 55W - However, I think the rears with a 55W amp would do better than Polk Components would.
If I understand correctly, you could either use a second set of BA's for the rear, or use a pair of Polk DB5250's in the front. The Rear BA's would let you more effectively use the Sony amp, and the DB5250's would allow you to use a 100Wx4 amp.
Not necessarily - you could use the Sony amp on fronts and add another 50Wx2 or similar sized amp for the rears. Otherwise, yes, a four channel amp would help - and if you use the DB5250's you will likely want something in the 80-100Wx4 range.
Okay - I'm not quite following you here. You are obsessed with RF subs or amps? If subs, you are wanting an enclosed sub that would work with 100W - ummm, the Bazooka BT6014 would work, or the RF PL1-110 would not be too bad.
At this point, you need to back up and look at what you overall want to accomplish.
If you go with a 100W sub, unless you are just looking for some fill bass out of it, you would do better with some basic coaxial speakers powered off the HU amp.
If you stay with the original 200W sub (and a good 200W amp), you would do better with the 55W compononents.
If you go with the Polk 100W components and say an 80Wx4 amp, you can adjust the fader and gain for the sub to be right, but you really could use a 400W or even 800W sub with this setup (probably 400W, but Carolinasp3 has recommended the sub be about 10X the main amp's power).
Hope I'm not confusing you more - I just want to point out that you might end up with 80-100W main speakers and a 100W sub, and I don't think that's a good plan.
Hello TigerHeli,
As you recommend, I will go for matched 55W speakers (both front & rear) and a 200W sub.
With the above said requirements, would u suggest me a good amp. and good front & rear speakers?
I would like to retain same subwoofer, PL2-112. (In line with ur recommendation)
My car details:
2007, Hyuindai Accent, Sedan
and the HU is same in specs. to DEH-6850MP (the one listed in CF)
My budget for the set up is 750 USD.
Thanks
I'm assuming you would like to use the Sony amp since you already have it.
Really comes down to whether you want to install all the amps in the trunk (in which case one of the 4-channel amps for the rears (or fronts) and the sub could work well, or if you want the main amps in the cabin and the sub amp in the trunk (in which case you probably want a separate amp for the sub and a 2-channel amp for the speakers.
Okay - you are pretty limited on front speakers - in fact, CF only shows 7 total that fit.
Kenwood - $50 good price, only handles 35W, but you could likely push 50W to it.
Sony - $70 - Same as above but 40W.
Personally, not a fan of Blaupunkt speakers, but they are an option.
Polk DB651's - $100 - handle 55W, probably a good choice.
Polk DB6500's - $150 - handle 100W, so for what you are looking at, the DB651's are probably better.
BA SX60's - $250 - handle 65W - I find components harder to install and don't like them for that reason, but if you like Boston Acoustics, these are an option.
You might also find that you could use the Sony's or Kenwood's with the HU amp.
So now for the rears, we want to match brands, so we have:
Either of the Kenwoods or Sony's will match well with the same brand above.
The BA S85's are really just included b/c they are non-components, the SX50's match better with the SB60's, but they are pricey.
Oddly, Polk doesn't seem to make a coaxial 6x8, and they didn't even show a 5.25 that fits either. The 5250's should be good enough. They are 100W, but you could use them okay with the DB651's or the DB6500's.
I'll let you review these and then try to answer more questions.
Thanks for your time. Before I review those, I want to understand 2 things:
1) Is it okay to power just front speakers and a sub, rather than powering all front+rear+sub with amp(s)?
2) Is it okay, if I don't use amp. to power the components at all and use an amp. to just power the Sub.? (I am not a 'loud' listener; but, at the same time don't want to miss any note and any beat). This provides me an option to fit all in budget, and upgrade later using a 4-ch amp. This will make my sony amp. useless, as upon bridging also, it comes to 100W, which is not 70% of 200W sub.
Hmmmn, tough questions for a guy that likes this stuff but hasn't had a ton of systems over the years. (Translation: If I screw this up, someone please correct me!!!)
aaRDee:1) Is it okay to power just front speakers and a sub, rather than powering all front+rear+sub with amp(s)?
That depends a bit on how you view your rear speakers. I tend to like my rear speakers at the same volume as the fronts (although I do fade the HU to the front slightly). In this case, you probably want them all amped. OTOH, a lot of forum members like the front speakers much louder for imaging and only use the rears for "fill". In this case, amping only the fronts and sub is a very real option. Another consideration is if people ever use the backseats and if you care what it sounds like to them - ie. you can have great sound in the front with that option, and the rear seat passengers will think it sounds terrible, b/c all they are hearing is the sub and a little bit of the full-range speakers.
Also, b/c of the way your car is configured, your rear speakers are both larger and more power-handling capable than your fronts, so what you would likely want to do is either but bass-blockers or HPF your fronts if your HU supports it and amp your rears speakers if you could only amp one set - depending on what front speakers you selected, of course.
2) Is it okay, if I don't use amp. to power the components at all and use an amp. to just power the Sub.?
It's not recommended, but it depends what we are talking about.
The Kenwoods and Sony's will sound pretty darn good with the internal HU. You could run the 50W Sony amp to them, but I wouldn't go much higher than that.
The BA's (55-65W) will sound okay on the Internal HU, but will sound really good with the 50W Sony amp.
The Polks (100W) will play with the internal HU, but they will only sound really good with at least a 60W amp (Sony 50W would work with them but not my first choice).
More to come.
(I am not a 'loud' listener; but, at the same time don't want to miss any note and any beat).
Okay - you really need to try to get a feel for what the different "levels" are (although if you've used the HU and amp previously you might know some of this.) Here's my personal take:
My Sony is 17W RMS x 4 channels. I don't like it loud enough for my ears to ring, but I don't want to hear the turn signals, A/C fan etc. over the HU either. The factory speakers are loud enough for me. The sound isn't very detailed, but that's okay with me. If I had a 200W sub/amp - that would definitely help fill-out the sound, and aftermarket speakers would give me more clarity and slightly more volume. Amping some aftermarket speakers (say a 40-50Wx4 amp) would give even more volume and headroom (hard to explain, but even at low volume a system with a more powerful amp sounds less strained and more musical).
Of course, a 60-100W amp sounds better than a 40W.
Similarly, I'm sure the Kenwood's and Sony speakers I recommended would sound better than my factory speakers and good enough for me. The Polks are very well rated, and likely better than those. I am not familiar with the BA's - I've heard people swear by them, but whether they are that much better than the Polks and whether either is enough better that you will notice the difference ... I can't say.
This provides me an option to fit all in budget, and upgrade later using a 4-ch amp.
You said your budget was $750. Unless you are going with the BA's, I am pretty sure I could put together any system you want for that price so not seeing what the problem is (UPDATE: I was thinking you meant $750 after the RF sub, and you probably didn't, but I still don't see the problem):
i.e. - System 1:
BA Front and rear - $500
Sony Amp - Free
4-channel amp for sub and front speakers: Profile AP740 - $130
RF Sub - $100
Total - $730
System 2:
Polk components front and rear: $280
4-channel amp (for main speakers) - Profile AP1040 $150 or Alpine MRP-F550 - $300
Subwoofer amp - Kenwoond KAC-6202 - $130
RF sub $100
Total: $660 (you could shave $50 off this with the Profile AP400 powering the sub - which is fine but not the brand name that the Kenwood is).
System 3:
Polk DB651's front, Polk Components rear - $230
Sony amp for DB651's - free
4 channel amp for rears and sub - Profile AP1040 - $150 or Infinity 475a - $250
Total Cost: $480 or $580
System 4:
Kenwoods Front and Rear: $120
Sony amp (probably on rear, maybe on front (slightly overpowered, set gains low)) remaining speakers on HU - Free
Sub amp - Profile AP400 - $80 or Alpine MRP-M450 - $200
RF Sub $100
Total Cost: $300 or $420
NOTE: I admit in some cases I picked cheaper items to stay in budget and in some case more expensive when you could go there. Add roughly $100 for wiring kits to the above options. My point is that you can do this for anywhere from $300 to very close to or a little over $750. System 1 is the most expensive and System 4 is the least. Unless you are really fond of BA speakers, I don't think there is much difference between them. System 2 is the loudest, but again, you are getting to where (front and rear together), you are feeding 160Wx2 to your main speakers and 200Wx1 to your sub - not sure that makes sense. System 3 is a good blend between the systems and likely what I would personally recommend.
This will make my sony amp. useless, as upon bridging also, it comes to 100W, which is not 70% of 200W sub.
Yes and no - The Sony amp is pretty useless as a sub amp - which I tried to tell you initially. It will work very well for one set of the BA's or for the DB651's. It's a bit weak for the Polk components, but you could get by with it. It's a bit powerful for the Sony or Kenwood fronts, but you might still want it for these, and about right for the Sony or Kenwood rears. There's no reason not to use it, but you want it on your main speakers.
Thank you very much for your time. I learnt a lot of things from your answer. It really helps me in finding good setup.
Thank you,
Sure. I will let you know.
Thanks,