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2003 Ford Mustang with Mach 460

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Blackney Posted: Tue, Nov 13 2007 2:43 PM
Hey, I was just wondering if anyone on here can help.  If i replace the mach 460 HU in my car with an aftermarket receiver will i still be able to use the factory amplifiers to power my speakers or will i have to run new wires to my speakers? Any help will be great as I've heard they finally have a harness that will allow me to use the amps and I've heard they are useless unless matched up with the factory HU. Thanks.
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TigerHeli replied on Tue, Nov 13 2007 3:31 PM

Took some digging to find this - CF carries most of the harnesses but doesn't explain them very well.  And it seems worse than you thought.  The woofers on each speaker are amped separately from the tweeters, so I'm not sure there is an easy way to connect them even if you ran new wire to them.

According to Metra's site, their harness requires RCA outputs on the HU, so if your selected HU doesn't offer these, you need a Line-Output Converter (LOC).  I ASSuME this harness does the trick for you. (Although the numbers don't match).

Here is the wiring info for your car, and it looks like one amp feeds both front woofers in parallel and another amp feeds the rear woofers in parallel, and either the red plug on the harness goes to the front and the white to the rear or vice versa.

So to do this right, I think you would really need to send the right side (RED) RCA output from your HU through a Y-adapter and then back through a Y-adapter and the same with the left (WHITE) RCA, or else you would just get left channel bass from the front and right channel bass from the rear.

Like this:

 

except instead of SS (soundstorm - from an older thread) it would go to the harness adapter. 

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narbig666 replied on Tue, Nov 13 2007 6:15 PM
if you figure out how to do it, could you please post some information for the rest of us. I ordered the part mentioned above and have a Jensen vm9312 coming in and up a little confused about wiring. So if you get it done could you post any sites that were helpful or what you did to get your receiver and speakers working
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TigerHeli replied on Wed, Nov 14 2007 6:58 AM

narbig666:
I ordered the part mentioned above and have a Jensen vm9312 coming in and up a little confused about wiring.

What part is confusing you.  It's scary, but I think I actually understand what's going on with this now, if I can explain anything to you.  I think it will be clear when you get the harness and see how the plugs are set up on the car.

Actually, writing and looking into this, I see why Metra took so long to release a Harness and CF for so long recommended ditching the system and running new speakers and wiring.Devil

The diagram above is not totally right. (Worked out better now that I thought it through some).  (The diagram above works for one set of pre-amp outputs, but you won't be able to fade the bass front to rear, so if your stereo has only one pair of pre-outs, you would really want a LOC for the front channels)

The confusing part to me is the RCA jack connection.  Your stereo has front and rear pre-outputs, which is good.  The problem is the harness has a single pair of pre-amp outputs one for the rear, and one for the front and expects both sides (L and R) to be fed to the single RCA.

What you need is a pair of these 2M-1F Y-adapters. Connect one adapter to the front pre-outs and one adapter to the rear pre-outs on the HU.  Then plug the Y-adapters into the CF harness.  I don't know whether the red plug is front or rear, so you'll just have to try it and swap them around if the bass goes to the rear when you fade to the front.

Hope This Helps!!! 

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Blackney replied on Wed, Nov 14 2007 2:24 PM

I recently talked to a CF advisor and they told me that the harness they send will hook right up to the cd player and all amps and speakers will work as if it was still the stock HU, if it actually works is yet to be seen.

 

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TigerHeli replied on Wed, Nov 14 2007 3:24 PM
I believe to really get it right you will need either front and rear pre-outs or a LOC that provides these and a pair of Y-adapters like I told Narbig666 but with that it looks like it should work to me.  Keep in mind I am going from CF's vehicle wiring info and Metra's brief instructions and some intuition, so ...

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narbig666 replied on Wed, Nov 14 2007 3:51 PM
well I'll give it a shot with the harness I ordered. And if it doesnt work out right I'll probably by the part you mentioned from Radio Shack. I'll post back when I'm done in order to help others out. Hopefully I'll be able to do it this weekend.
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TigerHeli replied on Wed, Nov 14 2007 4:15 PM
It would depend where the woofer's cut-off if you wire it without the adapters.  You will either be sending right side bass to both front woofers and left side bass to both rear woofers or vice-versa, but since low bass is omni-directional, that may or may not matter.

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narbig666 replied on Wed, Nov 14 2007 10:27 PM

So if I dont use the y adapter the only problem will be that I MIGHT notice a difference in sound quality with the bass, correct? Everything will still be usable and sound quality will not suffer much??

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TigerHeli replied on Thu, Nov 15 2007 6:53 AM

narbig666:
So if I dont use the y adapter the only problem will be that I MIGHT notice a difference in sound quality with the bass, correct? Everything will still be usable and sound quality will not suffer much??

Basically, yes - but keep in mind the factory system sent bass from both channels to both woofers, and bass is only omni-directional in the low-frequency range - there isn't a true cutoff point, but most people agree that above 100 Hz it can be localized.  I can't say for sure, but I think the Mustang has 6x8 woofers in the rear and either 6.5's or 6x8's in the door also.  I doubt that Ford cut those woofers off at 100 Hz and relied on the tweeters to play down to that low - a cutoff around 1,000 Hz would be more appropriate, if not higher.  So I think you will get weird sound.

Actually, given that most HU's if they have pre-outs have stereo (L and R) pre-outs, I think Metra really should have saved you the trouble and included 4 pre-outs instead of two on the adapter, but I didn't design it, and at this point I'm glad it's finally available b/c for a long time you really didn't have any options. 

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narbig666 replied on Tue, Nov 20 2007 8:43 PM

I was reading another forum and it said to use bass blockers and a Low-pass crossover. So that you wouldnt have high frequencies come out of the woofers and low frequencies come out of the tweeters. Do the 2 Y-Adapters eliminate the need of a bass blocker and Low-pass crossover?

If it doesnt eliminate the need for them, are they worth buying?

and my item still hasnt come in yet, I ordered from Ebay to save some money, but its taking quite a while to ship. ETA - Nov 26.

 Thanks.

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TigerHeli replied on Wed, Nov 21 2007 6:29 AM
narbig666:
I was reading another forum and it said to use bass blockers and a Low-pass crossover. So that you wouldnt have high frequencies come out of the woofers and low frequencies come out of the tweeters. Do the 2 Y-Adapters eliminate the need of a bass blocker and Low-pass crossover?

If it doesnt eliminate the need for them, are they worth buying?

The Y-adapters won't eliminate this - all they do is feed both channels (right and left to the amp).  However, the only time I think you would NEED LPF and Bass Blockers (BB) is if the signal is crossed-over in the HU, which you are replacing.  If there are external x-overs built-in, or it is crossed-over at the factory amp, you shouldn't need them, but I don't know this.

OTOH, they can't hurt and are cheap insurance.

Does anyone else have any info on where the speaker output is crossed over in the factory system. 

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Paul replied on Mon, Nov 26 2007 10:59 AM

I didn't find exactly where the sound is crossed over, but I did find some helpful information. In this Mach 460 system, there are two amplifiers present. The first amp powers the two front subwoofers (wired together in parallel) and the second amp powers the two rear subwoofers (also wired together in parallel). The front and rear tweeters are powered by the factory stereo directly. So, we know that it is not at the speaker, but most likely in the receiver itself.

Can anyone confirm?

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narbig666 replied on Mon, Nov 26 2007 8:44 PM

That seems correct, Paul. After installing my new headunit it seems as though there is too much bass going to the tweeters causing it to crackle, which is most likely because the crossover was in the receiver.

I'm almost done with my installation but one problem I am having is a lack of bass and power from my woofers as though the amp is not working. I did not use a Y adapter so i only have 2 rcas. the amp turn ons are powered to the ignition and i think i am doing everything right. Does any one know what I might be missing?

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TigerHeli replied on Tue, Nov 27 2007 6:17 AM

Even without the Y-adapters, the woofers should still be playing - you would just be getting right channel sound from both fronts and left channel from both rears or vice-versa.

I don't know what the problem would be - anyone? 

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