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Need a solid state head unit for 4WD with 4" speakers and sub

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flyingrhino Posted: Tue, Mar 4 2008 11:01 PM
Hi,
I'm trying to outfit my 4x4 with a solid state head  unit. I take the vehicle off road often so I don't want any moving parts. I also don't want any front mounted USB socket coz it will break real quick.

Anyhow, the vehicle has only front and rear 4" speakers (I want to buy some good ones).
I love punchy bass so I want a small enclosure 10" sub too.
I'm thinking of buying a Blaupunkt Melbourne SD27 or the Clarion FB275BT
Question is, how can I wire in a head unit like the above and limit the bass to the 4" drivers and yet not lose out on any of the sounds.
If I use a Crutchfield bass blocker for 600 Hz as advised on the website I will lose a lot of frequencies between the sub and the fronts (say 120Hz-600Hz).

I have not yet purchased the head unit, speakers, or sub, so the equipment I purchase will be defined by your advice here.
I want to run the fronts and rears off the head, and the sub off a separate amp.

Thanks.

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TigerHeli replied on Wed, Mar 5 2008 11:48 AM

What year and model 4x4?

The 600Hz is CF's recommendation - you can go lower or higher.  You also can LPF your sub at a higher frequency.  For example, you could go with CF's recommendation, but LPF your sub at 600.

Or go with 300Hz bass blockers and LPF the sub at 350 (depending on what your amp allows).

Or go with 150Hz bass blocker and LPF the sub at 150.

You can also connect two of the 150 Hz blockers in parallel on each speaker and they will HPF at 75.

I don't know if CF sells the opposite of bass blockers, which would be a LPF which is basically an inductor, but you might use that if you don't have a high-enough HPF setting on the amp.

My specific crossover recommendations will depend on what speakers you can fit in your vehicle. 

2002 Ford Focus Sony CDX-GT410u Sony XT-100HD HD Tuner Stock speakers, no amp, no subs

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Thanks for the reply.
I have a '96 Suzuki Escudo (Jap model) which is equivalent to the Suzi Vitara. It's the 1600 cc version with the short wheelbase. A perfect offroader - light and goes anywhere....

I don't have any sounds installed at the moment (only a factory tape deck) so I'm going to order stuff from CF after this discussion reaches a conclusion.

As for your crossover recommendation - my main constraint is the 4" speakers - both front and rear. I want to put good quality 4" because I know they will take a beating. They will run off the head unit though.
Sub and amp are still open to discussion - I love tight, punchy bass (kinda like the sound you get at the disco from PA subs) so I'm thinking of some 10" with a tight membrane and small enclosure. I prefer an enclosure that's not deep, the "boot" is 1 foot of space behind the rear seats although I can fold down one seat if I need to use a bigger enclosure.

Ultimately I am going to follow advice from this forum, so you might as well recommend 4" speakers, sub and amp.

BTW, I've just noticed yesterday on the CF site an Alpine ida-X300 which seems a better device to control this kind of setup. I am quite attracted to the X300 and I think that for the extra 30$ I might as well get a more versatile device than the Blaupunkt or Clarion.
The website: http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=300&i=500IDAX300&tp=5684&tab=detailed_info
says "HPF: The high pass filter (HPF) removes the lower bass from the front and rear speaker outputs. HPF options are 80 Hz, 120 Hz, 160 Hz, and off." - does this mean that the amplified speaker outputs have the lows cut off ? This might just solve my speaker issue, though 160 seems a bit low, doesn't it ?
What's your opinion on this ?

Thanks.
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Hmmnn, this took a lot of twists when I looked into.

First off, CF sells something called F-mods or similar which go in the RCA lines if you wanted to LPF you sub amp at say 600 Hz. 

flyingrhino:
I have a '96 Suzuki Escudo (Jap model) which is equivalent to the Suzi Vitara. It's the 1600 cc version with the short wheelbase. A perfect offroader - light and goes anywhere....

I'm basing my recommendations off the 96 Sidekick, although CF lists an X-90 if that would be more appropriate.

As for your crossover recommendation - my main constraint is the 4" speakers - both front and rear. I want to put good quality 4" because I know they will take a beating. They will run off the head unit though.

This is odd, CF shows 4" for the dash and 5" for the rear panels, but they say 6.75's will fit the rear with no problems - good news there!!!

They also recommend using the same brand of mains all around, but that is optional.

For the front, only these two fit, but the Kenwoods are rated down to 45 Hz, I wouldn't run them that way and would likely HPF them at probably 300 with bass blockers, b/c the rear will handle the mid-bass.

For the rear - these fit (plus a bunch more).  I would go with the $90 Kenwood since they are 2-year warrranty, but the other Kenwoods are just as good on specs and down to 35 Hz.   


Sub and amp are still open to discussion - I love tight, punchy bass (kinda like the sound you get at the disco from PA subs) so I'm thinking of some 10" with a tight membrane and small enclosure. I prefer an enclosure that's not deep, the "boot" is 1 foot of space behind the rear seats although I can fold down one seat if I need to use a bigger enclosure.

This is a pretty nice little sub package - the amp could be a bit larger, but it is adequate (if there is such a thing).  I'm not a subwoofer person, though, so if anyone wants to make better suggestions, feel free!!!

Ultimately I am going to follow advice from this forum, so you might as well recommend 4" speakers, sub and amp.

BTW, I've just noticed yesterday on the CF site an Alpine ida-X300 which seems a better device to control this kind of setup. I am quite attracted to the X300 and I think that for the extra 30$ I might as well get a more versatile device than the Blaupunkt or Clarion.
The website: http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=300&i=500IDAX300&tp=5684&tab=detailed_info
says "HPF: The high pass filter (HPF) removes the lower bass from the front and rear speaker outputs. HPF options are 80 Hz, 120 Hz, 160 Hz, and off." - does this mean that the amplified speaker outputs have the lows cut off ? This might just solve my speaker issue, though 160 seems a bit low, doesn't it ?
What's your opinion on this ?

I like Alpine a lot so I think that's a good choice.  The HPF does exactly what you want, but you might use it at say 120Hz on the rear speakers and still use 300Hz bass blockers on the dash speakers.

Any other suggestions? 

2002 Ford Focus Sony CDX-GT410u Sony XT-100HD HD Tuner Stock speakers, no amp, no subs

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This is odd, CF shows 4" for the dash and 5" for the rear panels, but they say 6.75's will fit the rear with no problems - good news there!!!
On my car the fronts are absolutely 4" and the rears are interesting. The holes in the panel are for a 4" speaker, but the entire plastic panel comes off for assembly. Behind it there is space for a larger speaker than 4" but the mounting space is for a 4" ! Without any bodywork, only a 4" would fit.

For the front, only these two fit, but the Kenwoods are rated down to 45 Hz, I wouldn't run them that way and would likely HPF them at probably 300 with bass blockers, b/c the rear will handle the mid-bass.
Going with that Alpine I see your point, but assuming I have 4" all around, could I drive them down to 160Hz and send the rest to the sub? 
Would 160Hz be pushing these little 4" ? Should I still go with 300Hz as you say, then LPF the sub from 300 HZ ?

No problems with the sub. I might actually go for something more powerful, but there's lots of options here so no problems at this stage.

Thanks.












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flyingrhino:
On my car the fronts are absolutely 4" and the rears are interesting. The holes in the panel are for a 4" speaker, but the entire plastic panel comes off for assembly. Behind it there is space for a larger speaker than 4" but the mounting space is for a 4" ! Without any bodywork, only a 4" would fit.

Not sure why you say there is a space for a larger speaker but without bodywork only a 4" would fit.  (I would likely do the bodywork if it were mine.Cool)

Going with that Alpine I see your point, but assuming I have 4" all around, could I drive them down to 160Hz and send the rest to the sub?
Would 160Hz be pushing these little 4" ? Should I still go with 300Hz as you say, then LPF the sub from 300 HZ ?

I'm not sure - they are rated down to 45Hz.  It's been a long time since I've had small speakers in a car.  I think I had a Hyundai with 4" speakers and didn't use BB with them and they were fine.  And I had 3.5's in a Mustang and they blew even with the BB. Angry

I'd at least try running them down to 160 or maybe even 120.  Your problem with 300 all around is the sub (at least the one I recommended) is only rated up to 150 Hz.  It would probably play up to 300 Hz, but how well and how clean is unknown.  (And you would need those F-mods to LPF it at 300 Hz.)

2002 Ford Focus Sony CDX-GT410u Sony XT-100HD HD Tuner Stock speakers, no amp, no subs

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Not sure why you say there is a space for a larger speaker but without bodywork only a 4" would fit. (I would likely do the bodywork if it were mine.)

It goes like this: 
The front speakers are in the extreme front corners of the dash. No mucking around here - 4" no compromise.
The rear speakers are covered by a large plastic panel with a 4" series of holes for the sound to come out of. Note that this 4" hole is not a panel that detaches, just venting for the speaker - the entire panel comes off.
Now the bodywork - the speaker is set into the body of the car with an oval shaped enclosure and 3 screws in positions for a 4" speaker. So yes, it has to be either a 4" or an oval 4x6, but then part of the speaker won't be vented.


I'd at least try running them down to 160 or maybe even 120. Your problem with 300 all around is the sub (at least the one I recommended) is only rated up to 150 Hz. It would probably play up to 300 Hz, but how well and how clean is unknown. (And you would need those F-mods to LPF it at 300 Hz.)

True, I'm going to start preparing things then I'll purchase the head unit and speakers.

Thanks.







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flyingrhino:
It goes like this: The front speakers are in the extreme front corners of the dash. No mucking around here - 4" no compromise.

That agrees with what CF says. 

The rear speakers are covered by a large plastic panel with a 4" series of holes for the sound to come out of. Note that this 4" hole is not a panel that detaches, just venting for the speaker - the entire panel comes off.
Now the bodywork - the speaker is set into the body of the car with an oval shaped enclosure and 3 screws in positions for a 4" speaker. So yes, it has to be either a 4" or an oval 4x6, but then part of the speaker won't be vented.

Interesting - you have to pull the entire panel to get to the speaker anyway.  I wouldn't worry about the venting, and I would try to fit larger speakers here.  Not sure why CF shows 6.75" fitting, but maybe the US-spec car is different from the Japanese version.

2002 Ford Focus Sony CDX-GT410u Sony XT-100HD HD Tuner Stock speakers, no amp, no subs

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Hi,
Sorry for the late reply, I was away for a while.
Anyhow, no chance of putting large speakers in the back, the only option is a 4" or a funny elliptical 4x5 or 4x6. I think I will stick with standard 4" because of the unnecessary work to be done in order to get an elliptical in.
Anyhow, I will get a sub, so hopefully there will be not much loss of mid bass. I will also take a 10" and not a 12" so it should be have a better high end than a 12".
Cheers,
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Daniel replied on Mon, Mar 17 2008 11:54 AM

Hi flyingrhino,

How much off-roading do you do with this vehicle, and do you do any mudding? The reason why I ask is if you put it into extremely dusty or damp conditions a lot, it may be a good idea to look into our marine audio equipment. They are better protected from the elements and will likely last longer given your application. I would also look into using a sealed rather than a ported enclosure for the subwoofer to minimize dust and grime getting into the driver and causing problems.

If you want to have a bit more punch in the mid range, you could consider getting small speaker boxes that fit a 6"x9" speaker and installing them somewhere in the vehicle (perhaps behind or under a seat). An advantage with this method is you have easily removable speakers for when you are going to really put the car through its paces.

For a head unit, I would look into head units that have a rear USB or aux input. With these you can run an extension cable to wherever you like (such as your glove box) and avoid snapping off connectors in the front of the unit.  I am in the process of building a 4x4 for off-roading (78 Ford Bronco) and have decided that a HU with rear-usb input and excellent AM/FM reception is the best way for me to go -- coupled with a solid-state flash memory thumb drive and an in-cab antenna (so I don't break it off).

 

I hope this helps!

1993 Honda Accord EX Coupe Pioneer DEH-P6900UB Polk db650's front (full range) Factory rear 6x9 (set in HU to run as midbass only) Sony XM-DS1300P5 sub amp Alpine 10" Type E in sealed enclosure
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