Hi Junior77,
The first thing you will want to do when tuning the car is to make sure that you choose 'Front Left' within the Area Selection of the IMPRINT Sound Manager Software.
By default the software chooses 'ALL' locations and will ask you to place the mic in the middle of the front seats. This is OK, but we really want to tunr the vehicle to the driver's location...YOUR location. Unless you have a center drive car then you should choose 'Front Left' ('Front Right' for Australia LOL).
Once you do this IMPRINT Sound Manager will direct you where to place the mic within the vehicle, but there are a few tips and tricks.
1) As mentioned before, turn down the gain on your subwoofer amplifier before tuning, set it at 1/8 to 1/4 (you'll turn it back up once tuning is complete)
2) Turn off all amplifier Crossovers (if you can't turn them off then turn them up/down accordingly) you want the amplifier to play the widest frequency bandwidth possible.
3) Remove all head rests from the car (if possible)
4) Make sure all seats in the car are in the 'normal' position, put your driver's seat in the position where YOU drive from
Now onto the mic positions... there is a pre-threaded nutsert on the bottom of the mic and it just 'Happens' to fit perfectly onto any camera tripod. Seems like our engineers were thinking ahead?
Screw the mic onto a camera tripod then you're ready to put it in the car.
Start with the driver's seat - Place the mic firing directly upwards (it is omni-directional so you don't need to point it forward or anything...)
Make sure the mic is dead center (left to right) and at your normal head height and about 3" in front of the head rest position (where you're head would normally be...)
Close all windows and doors and measure the position.
Next do the same thing for middle of the rear seats.
Next do the same thing for the front passenger's position. -- Yes even if you don't plan to use any rearfill speakers. What you are doing is measuring the vehicle's acoustics as well as the actual speakers output. The more info IMPRINT has on the acoustics of your vehicle the more accurately it can tune.
Next do the same thing for the front passenger's position.
Now return to the Driver's Seat and this time place the mic in the exact same position (height and distance from headrest) but this time put it all the way over towards the door while still being on the seat.
For the last position just move the mic as close to the center console as possible while still remaining on the Driver's Seat.
That's it -- 5 mic positions!
Of course you can do up to 8, but we have found these 5 locations to pretty much work in any vehicle we have tuned.
But please feel free to experiment and let all of us know what you find works best for you...
IMPRINT is still a new technology and people would far rather hear YOUR experience with it than listen to some guy from Alpine!!!
Thanks,
Scott
Great post Scott! I will print that out and keep for reference.
A few questions...
1) Does the imprint have to the measurements all in one sitting? i.e, Can you do 1 or 2 positions, start the car up to re-charge the battery, turn off the car and continue to the next position. Or even come back at a later date to complete the remaining locations? I'm concerned cause I do not know how 'loud' or 'long' the test signals are and I'm worried about running the battery dry. A/B sub amps are power thirsty!! My battery is in the trunk so it would be more difficult to get a charger to it whilst not disturbing the subwoofer response.
2) I'm assuming the 4th and 5th positions are for driver left and right ear placement?
3) Purpose of removing head rests? Since they will be back in the car once it is tuned.
It's a shame I can't play with the software prior to installation, would probably answer a LOT of my preliminary questions.
Possible good news is I have access to a 4yr OLD Windows laptop. Very sluggish. What are the hardware requirements for this software to work.
- Sam
This is an interesting thread. Just for grins, you might when to give it a shot on your Vista laptop. I don't think doing so would cause any great harm, and it might be easier for you, not to mention clue other people in on alternatives to XPsp2. My experience as a software developer has been that "offically supports XX" doesn't necessarily mean "only works on XX".
Good luck!
Trust me, I will most definately try the Vista laptop first. If that doesn't work, I'll resort to the defunct XPsp2 laptop. If that still doesn't work...I'll have to drag out my old desktop with XPsp2, glad I haven't upgraded it to SP3, yet!....lol!
I thought the same thing about the 'officially supports XX', but there have been numerous threads stating that it 'does not work' with Vista. And with my limited experience using Vista (I'm a mac guy) I'm not suprised at all.
ha, I'm in the same boat as you, writing this post on a MBP that I'll be bootcamping into XP when I play with my IMPRINT setup. :)
Okay, fingers crossed for the both of us, then.
What about Windows 2000? Will the Imprint software work on that computer?
I just relized the old computer has 2000 not XPsp2...hmm...
Junior77 you have a PM, check your inbox...
Scott Neill: 1) As mentioned before, turn down the gain on your subwoofer amplifier before tuning, set it at 1/8 to 1/4 (you'll turn it back up once tuning is complete)
I have 2 amps: 1 amp driving front component speakers, the other driving a single subwoofer.
What should the relative gains be set in terms of 'voltage' sensitivity in order to achieve a well rounded sub/front mix?
Front 4V / Sub 1V
or
Front 4V / Sub 2V
I've now completed the imprint and the sound is good, a lot better than without. However, if you are looking to have the loudest sub, imprint is not for you. Even after lowering the gains on the sub amp the sub plays loud, but it won't make the bass freaks happy. I'm not a bass freak, so this works great for me personally.
Some further clarification/guidelines on the target curves:
Reference - Musical
Reference with mid range compensation - Musical with 'warmer' sounding mid-range;
Linear - SQ Flat
I've also been told from Alpine Tech support, when measuring the front drivers seat position, to have the multiple mic locations (upto 4) at least 6 inches away from each other. Otherwise there will be little to no impact when calculating the correction. Anyone have experience with this?
I will post the response curves later today to give people an idea of the output from the Imprint Software and the difference between the target curves.
EDIT: How do you post photos??
Scott,
Thanks for your helpful advice and insight. I wouldn't object to having this kind of useful info posted on Alpine's own web site in the Support section. :)
I would like to interject with my own experience to illustrate that you can also end up with great results using alternate methods. I have a CDA-9887 head unit and calibrated using the KTX-100EQ. Instead of trying to trick the IMPRINT software by lowering the subwoofer amp gain, instead I first set my amp gains to achieve a proper blend between sub and front mids using a test CD and DMM. I realize that not everyone has access to these, and some people with golden ears can even adjust their amp gains by ear. Procedures for properly setting amp gains can be found in various places on the Web. I happened to use JL Audio's method. Having achieved the proper blend between mids and sub, I then proceeded to do the IMPRINT calibration with incredible results! My bass is strong, clean and perfectly blended with my front mids.
Another thing to point out is that the IMPRINT software does not alter the 9887's subwoofer output control, so it's imperative to set this value manually on the head unit to output a healthy, clean, undistorted signal to your sub amp. I have mine set at 11 (out of 15) based on my sub amp gain setting. The default value for the 9887's subwoofer output level is 0, and if you don't change this, it could explain some of the "low bass" symptoms reported by customers.
I also highly recommend doing the calibration at all 6 mic locations (as indicated by IMPRINT) to achieve the best results.
Regards,
Joe
Good tips...this is the reason why I bought the tuning kit so that I could 'play' around with it.
Here is something I recieved from Chris @ Audessy:
"The target curves we use come from our research over the past few years at USC where we have a lab that focuses on understanding what the right curve is for different environments.
So, Audyssey Reference is flat out to 10 kHz and then has a slight roll-off out to 20 kHz. This is a standard curve used in home theater setups, but also in many of the cars that we have tuned.
junior,
Interesting. I didn't have a flat curve choice in my version of IMPRINT Sound Manager, but one labeled Linear. The graphic for Linear leads you to believe that it boosts the bass and cuts the high end. Didn't look very useful in my opinion. I agree: start with Reference curve and experiment with Midrange Compensation for those who might have front components with hot tweeters.
I assumed Linear = Flat, but your observations are similar to mine. My software had the 'Linear' as you described.
Sounds like there is not good communication between Alpine & Audissey, as he also mentioned some bass adjustability within the Alpine Imprint software. And as far as I can see, there is no such thing. I've asked for further clarification....I'll keep this forum updated if anything of interest comes up.
Something else I'm trying to understand regarding gain set up....
In the manual it states the following:
"If a power amplifier or powered subwoofer with an input level control and this level is lowered, measurement may not be possible. However, the input level should set lowered than normal level to adequately perform measurement."
Then in the flyer sheet it states the following:
"To customers using a seperate amplifier for the subwoofer or powered subwoofer. To set MultEQ more effectively, note the following point. Prior to MultEQ calibration, the gain levels of the amplifier for subwoofer or powered subwoofer is recommended to be set to center (12 o'clock)."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So, what does this all mean...does the calibration in effect adjust the gain levels? Or should you go ahead and adjust gain levels then lower them a bit prior to starting?
I think they're trying to avoid the case where the sub amp gain is turned down so low that it doesn't generate an adequate enough signal to measure properly. On the other hand, setting gain on the sub amp to 50% may be appropriate in some setups, but too high in others. They definitely should address some of these issues/questions on their web site.
I honesty thought that there was a bug in the IMPRINT software in the regard to the subwoofer output after calibration. I'm guessing that IMPRINT calculates a recommended subwoofer trim level, but by looking at the subwoofer level display on the head unit it's certainly not obvious that this gets transferred correctly after calibration. I've experimented many times with this and in every case, the head unit's displayed subwoofer level never changes after a calibration. This behavior is unlike any other product incorporating Audyssey MultEQ XT. That's why I thought it was a bug. Alpine Tech support claims that this is a feature (!) designed to allow the listener to adjust the subwoofer output to personal taste. Hmmm.