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Vsx 51 7.1 channel receiver for music bi amp speakers

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Vsx 51 7.1 channel receiver for music bi amp speakers

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I have a pair of bi ampable speakers and this vsx 51 receiver. I have two speakers I want to hook to it for music. I don't wish to use it for home theater. I have the speakers wired and not bi-amped to the speakers from the 'front' set of speakers on the receiver. 

 

When you hit the key that selects the speakers and turns terminals on and off you get these changes in how the speakers sound. Somtimes I believe I should be getting more from 2 thousand dollar bookshelf speakers. 

 

What is the boat possible way to hook up a pair of bookshelf speakers for music performance using the receiver I have with these speakers. How should they be hooked up to the receiver? Which terminals? What speaker arangment should be chose on the speaker chooser (on the receiver itself) so that I can get real music sound out of these? 

 

Thanks for your help. I love Crutchfield. Jason

Verified Answer
  • What is the make and model of the speakers you are using?

         RESIma

  • To bi-amp your speakers do the following:

    1. Remove the jumpers that connect the upper and lower pairs of terminals on your speakers.
    2. Connect the "FRONT RIGHT" speaker outputs on your receiver to the upper terminal pair on your right speaker (mind polarity).
    3. Connect the "FRONT LEFT" speaker outputs on your receiver to the upper terminal pair on your left speaker (mind polarity).
    4. Connect the "SURROUND BACK RIGHT" speaker outputs on your receiver to the lower terminal pair on your right speaker (mind polarity).
    5. Connect the "SURROUND BACK LEFT" speaker outputs on your receiver to the lower terminal pair on your left speaker (mind polarity).

    That takes care of the physical connections. You will need to change the speaker settings of the receiver to "Front BI-Amp". To do this you will need to have the video output of your receiver connected to a TV.

    Once you are connected to a TV, turn on the TV and select the correct source (the one your receiver is connected to).

    Using the receiver remote, do the following:

    1. Turn on the receiver.
    2. Press <Receiver>.
    3. Press <Home Menu> (the home menu GUI should be visible on your TV).
    4. Using the arrow keys, scroll to "System Setup" and select it by pressing <Enter>.
    5. Select the "Manual SP Setup" menu.
    6. Select "Speaker System".
    7. Select "Front Bi-Amp" and press <Enter>.

    Now your receiver is in Bi-Amp Mode and the high and low frequency components of each speaker will be independently amplified.

    Use can the same "Manual SP Setup" menu to set your front speaker size to "LARGE" and all of the other speakers to "NO". This will ensure that the full spectrum of frequencies and any multi-channel content will always play through your front speakers. Detailed instructions are on page 66 of your Owners Manual.

    Leave "SPEAKER B" off and listen in "STEREO" mode. Use "Pure Direct" mode to bypass all signal processing (there shouldn't be any if you never did an auto setup or adjusted the surround settings manually).

    Enjoy the music!

         RESIma

All Replies
  • What is the make and model of the speakers you are using?

         RESIma

  • They are kef iq 20. If you just want to hear hear music, what is e proper setting on the receiver? When you toggle between speakers 'a' and 'b' it seems like the sound changed some. When and if I bi amp, what is the proper setting on the recover front to use these speakers? 

     

    It seems like you turn the speaker terminals on and off with this button and I don't get it. 

     

    http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/VSX-51_OperatingInstructions051911.pdf 

     

    Please see page 50. Under Switching the speaker teminals. Each time I switch these it changes the sound. I want to hear music. I don't understand the home theater receiver as well as the traditional 2 channel ones. And if you bi amp, what setting would you use with this?

    Because, if I bi a,p, the speakers wire into two different channels it seems 

  • To bi-amp your speakers do the following:

    1. Remove the jumpers that connect the upper and lower pairs of terminals on your speakers.
    2. Connect the "FRONT RIGHT" speaker outputs on your receiver to the upper terminal pair on your right speaker (mind polarity).
    3. Connect the "FRONT LEFT" speaker outputs on your receiver to the upper terminal pair on your left speaker (mind polarity).
    4. Connect the "SURROUND BACK RIGHT" speaker outputs on your receiver to the lower terminal pair on your right speaker (mind polarity).
    5. Connect the "SURROUND BACK LEFT" speaker outputs on your receiver to the lower terminal pair on your left speaker (mind polarity).

    That takes care of the physical connections. You will need to change the speaker settings of the receiver to "Front BI-Amp". To do this you will need to have the video output of your receiver connected to a TV.

    Once you are connected to a TV, turn on the TV and select the correct source (the one your receiver is connected to).

    Using the receiver remote, do the following:

    1. Turn on the receiver.
    2. Press <Receiver>.
    3. Press <Home Menu> (the home menu GUI should be visible on your TV).
    4. Using the arrow keys, scroll to "System Setup" and select it by pressing <Enter>.
    5. Select the "Manual SP Setup" menu.
    6. Select "Speaker System".
    7. Select "Front Bi-Amp" and press <Enter>.

    Now your receiver is in Bi-Amp Mode and the high and low frequency components of each speaker will be independently amplified.

    Use can the same "Manual SP Setup" menu to set your front speaker size to "LARGE" and all of the other speakers to "NO". This will ensure that the full spectrum of frequencies and any multi-channel content will always play through your front speakers. Detailed instructions are on page 66 of your Owners Manual.

    Leave "SPEAKER B" off and listen in "STEREO" mode. Use "Pure Direct" mode to bypass all signal processing (there shouldn't be any if you never did an auto setup or adjusted the surround settings manually).

    Enjoy the music!

         RESIma

  • If i am biamped, will I be able to hook a second pair of speakers to my system and hear them when listening? Will I be able to turn the second pair off if I don't wish to use them? Will I be able to turn off the bi amped speakers and run the second pair - they are in different rooms. 

     

    In a quote from you below - 

    Once you are connected to a TV, turn on the TV and select the correct source (the one your receiver is connected to)

    Do you mean I need to specify a source like a cd player or somthing.? I will be using AirPlay for this from an iPad. Thanks for your help ! I am in a remote place where I can't ask anyone.

     

    Jason

     

  • jmerr
    If i am biamped, will I be able to hook a second pair of speakers to my system and hear them when listening?

    No. Bi-amping uses the channels that would be used for zone two.

    jmerr
    Will I be able to turn the second pair off if I don't wish to use them? Will I be able to turn off the bi amped speakers and run the second pair - they are in different rooms. 

    Not applicable. See above.

    jmerr
    Do you mean I need to specify a source like a cd player or somthing.?

    No. On the TV you need to select the source that the receiver is connected to so you can view and navigate the receivers menus on the screen.

         RESIma

  • Alex W
    On the TV you need to select the source that the receiver is connected to so you can view and navigate the receivers menus on the screen.

    I didn't understand this either - but it would be like "HDMI 1" or "AUX 1" etc. on the TV menu.

    2002 Ford Focus JVC KD-A815 Sony CDX-GT410u Sony XT-100HD HD Tuner Stock speakers, no amp, no subs

  • By bi amping will not be able to hook any further speakers to the 7.1 channels? Shucks 

     

    If you did not bi amp, what is the superior way to listen to music with all those channels and which is the proper receiver setting for the speakers? 

  • You would use the same menu as I described above but set the speaker settings for two zone operation. Connect the second zone  to the "SURROUND BACK" channels, the front speakers to "FRONT SPEAKERS" only with the jumper in place.

    The rest is the same since you are still operating only in stereo.

    You may want to consider a second amp for zone two and stick with bi-amping the KEF's. I think they would really shine with the additional headroom that bi-amping provides. My PSB Stratus Mini's certainly do.

    In short, I'd get my primary listening room set up to sound as good as it can sound, then worry about the second zone. Quality rather than quantity.

         RESIma

  • In theory, bi aMPING is going to give the speakers a bit more power to work with?

     

  • Twice the power in your case, with separate amps driving high and low frequencies. Depending on the speaker, it can make a noticable improvement.

         RESIma

  • I did not end up bi among the speakers as my terminals on the walls were not enough to do so. These speakers sound great and I am especially impressed with movies. With music I never know the correct settings. I had a marantz before that was much better.knowing what I know now - I would end up with a sonos on it anyway - I would have kept the marantz. 

     

    I never know quite how to set the speakers on or off for the right sound or the flattest sound. 

  • what is being talked about is bi- wiring as opposed to bi-amping. In Bi amping or Tri amping active crossover's are used to seperate the signal at line level. Since the practice is active there is no attenuation like with passive crossover's. Bi- Wiring just uses an extra channel of an amplifier to drive the portion of the passive crossover dedicated to each respective driver. There are far more benefit's for bi-amplification than there are for Bi-wiring. For an explanation of the benefits and how to set up a system check out  http://sound.westhost.com . There are quite a few articles explaining various aspects of audio electronics as well as some good projects.

  • lespaul1021

    what is being talked about is bi- wiring as opposed to bi-amping. In Bi amping or Tri amping active crossover's are used to seperate the signal at line level. Since the practice is active there is no attenuation like with passive crossover's. Bi- Wiring just uses an extra channel of an amplifier to drive the portion of the passive crossover dedicated to each respective driver. There are far more benefit's for bi-amplification than there are for Bi-wiring. For an explanation of the benefits and how to set up a system check out  http://sound.westhost.com . There are quite a few articles explaining various aspects of audio electronics as well as some good projects.

    Not true. Bi-amping simply means that separate amplifier channels are used to drive the high-frequency section and the low-frequency section of the speaker. The crossover can be active or passive. In the case of the OP's speakers (and in the case of almost every home audio speaker that is "bi-ampable") the passive crossovers built into the speakers are still employed. The crossovers are separated into low-pass and high-pass segments and joined together by a jumper when not being bi-amped. When bi-amping is used, the jumpers are removed and the high-frequency and low-frequency segments of each speaker are driven independently by a single amplifier channel. Adding a powered subwoofer is effectively tri-amping using an active crossover at the sub and separate, passive high-pass and low-pass filters in the speakers.

    Active crossovers are typically employed in subwoofers where efficiency is critical and the crossover point needs to be variable in order to accommodate a wide selection of loudspeakers. Passive filters are used in bi-ampable speakers because the sonic characteristics of the loudspeaker depend largely upon the design of the crossover and the way it interacts with the drivers and enclosure. Eliminating the passive crossover would defeat the purpose of buying a particular speaker in the first place.

    Bi-wiring is simply removing the jumpers and using separate pairs of wires to connect each segment to the same amplifier channel.

    Bi-amping effectively doubles the power available to drive the speaker and may make some sonic artifacts less noticeable by removing them from the high-frequency spectrum.

    Bi-wiring doesn't do much of anything at all.

    The articles you point to refer specifically to bi-amplification using active crossovers between the woofer and the passively crossed midrange and tweeter of a full range loudspeaker. The writer assumes that the passive crossovers will remain in place in and that they are not separated into high-pass and low-pass segments. This is essential what is done when the electronic crossover in an A/V receiver is used to employ a powered subwoofer.

    The writer states:

    The most common question I get is ...

    "Do I need to disconnect the passive crossover in my speakers?"
    The answer is ... Yes, otherwise you are not really biamping at all.

    This is incorrect. If separate channels of amplification are being use, you are bi-amping. Later in the article the writer refers to this as "passive biamping". More on that later.

    Generally speaking, the mid to high section needs to be retained since a typical biamp setup will only eliminate the bass to mid+high network. These sections are nearly always completely separate networks, although it may not seem like it when you first have a look at the board.

    And because the sonic characteristics of the speaker are very dependent upon the design of these passive components.

    Equally important is the selection of the electronic crossover frequency. It must be the same as the original, within a few 10s of hertz. The only exception is where you might obtain information from the manufacturer of the speaker that allows the frequency to be modified. In general, I strongly suggest that you determine the original crossover frequency, and stay with it.

    This is correct in this context, because the writer is utilizing a separate amplifier channel to drive the woofer in a 3-way speaker. The point is moot when adding an external powered subwoofer, because there is no "original" crossover frequency.

    Passive biamping (where two amplifiers are used in a bi-wiring connection) is, IMHO, a waste of money. Although there may be some moderate sonic benefits, they are not worth the expense of the extra amplifier.

    I disagree. Although it was updated in 2006, it seems obvious that this article was written quite a while ago with the intention of improving the performance of a pair of full-range, three-way speakers in a stereo system. Such speakers are much less common these days. At the time of the article, there may not have been many (or any) two-way speakers available with separate high-pass and low-pass filters, or free-standing powered subs, or multi-channel receivers. Today these are common and make bi-amping through passive filters as easy as hooking up a second pair of cables to the unused channels of a receiver and doing a bit of set-up in the menu. The minimal effort and expense involved make this type of bi-amping well worth the effort (especially since the passive filters are designed with this application in mind). Large full-range speaker systems with built-in powered subs and electronic crossovers at the low-frequency crossover point and independent passive components at the midrange/tweeter (as per the article) are also common today. This is a very good article if it was written before 1980. If it was written much after that it isn't all that relevant, although much of the technical information is still valid.



    [edited by: Alex W at 11:14 AM (GMT -5) on Sun, Jul 8 2012]

         RESIma

  • jmerr
    In theory, bi aMPING is going to give the speakers a bit more power to work with?

    Not sure this is true either.

    I'm coming from a car stereo background, but let's say a typical car stereo amp is 60W RMSx4@4-ohms, 90W RMSx4@2-ohms, 180W RMSx2 at 4-ohms bridged.

    With only 2 speakers - I get the most power by bridging the amp and running them not bi-amped, but that is not the issue here.

    I could run the speakers off the front amp channels (non-bi-amped) at 60W RMS.

    Alternately, I could send 60W to the tweeters using the front amp channels, and 60W to the woofers using the rear amp channels (bi-amping).

    Note that I have NOT sent any more REAL power to the speakers.

    However, since the rear channel amp only has to supply bass frequencies and the front channel amp only has to supply treble frequencies - I have cut the DEMAND on the amp, which probably means it will produce cleaner sound to the speakers.  Also, since the amp has separate gain controls for the front and rear channels, I can adjust the OUTPUT of the tweeters relative to the woofers and probably get better sound that way.

    Anyone else have suggestions?

    2002 Ford Focus JVC KD-A815 Sony CDX-GT410u Sony XT-100HD HD Tuner Stock speakers, no amp, no subs

  • Amps produce voltage.

    Speakers and filters are loads wired in parallel.

    Loads in parallel are voltage dividers.

    X divided by 1 (woofer or tweeter) = X

    X divided by two (woofer and tweeter) = .5X

    Bi-amping make more power available to the speakers.

         RESIma